Picture of the Week 2

[Commander]

http://www.iath.virginia.edu/seminar/unit1/images/boston.jpg

The Boston Massacre

[Commander]

Was the Boston MAssacre an accident in your opinion? Did someone have a shaky trigger finger?

[Lpspider]

Wow, that's surprisingly disturbing. It really was a massacre.

[Ritocal]

That picture is misleading and is not accurate in any way about what really happened in Boston that day.

To make it accurate it would first have to take place at night and in the snow. The American Mob (yes Mob) would have to be armed with clubs and rocks.. although most of those rocks would be at the British soldiers feet after being pelted with them. The soldiers would not be organized and firing at once. Bayonets would not be attached.

Imagine if you were a British soldier. In front of you a raging mob looking for an excuse to beat you to a pulp. They are screaming obsenities and throwing rocks at you. Behind you, your commander is screaming at the top of his lungs for the crowd to disperse. He as already give the command to ready in hopes that it will intimidate the mob to go away. You have been trained to listen for one word before acting.. "Fire". You think you might have heard it but are not sure...You hear a loud banging noise. It could have been a gun. What do you do?


Another interesting point about this print is that it was done by Paul Revere... although it is claimed that he copied it from someone else who's name I forget.

[Kimber]

Wow that's interesting Ritocal!

[Commander]

That picture is misleading and is not accurate in any way about what really happened in Boston that day.

To make it accurate it would first have to take place at night and in the snow. The American Mob (yes Mob) would have to be armed with clubs and rocks.. although most of those rocks would be at the British soldiers feet after being pelted with them. The soldiers would not be organized and firing at once. Bayonets would not be attached.

Imagine if you were a British soldier. In front of you a raging mob looking for an excuse to beat you to a pulp. They are screaming obsenities and throwing rocks at you. Behind you, your commander is screaming at the top of his lungs for the crowd to disperse. He as already give the command to ready in hopes that it will intimidate the mob to go away. You have been trained to listen for one word before acting.. "Fire". You think you might have heard it but are not sure...You hear a loud banging noise. It could have been a gun. What do you do?


Another interesting point about this print is that it was done by Paul Revere... although it is claimed that he copied it from someone else who's name I forget.

There's no question that the Boston Mod instigated this "Massacre", which I don't think was really a massacre... didn't only a handful of people die? Doesn't this picture represent America's first stand to fight for freedom. Angry at the stamp act and no taxation without presentation.

The picture is a little midleading, but painted by an American you can't expect much less. I don't think the troops would be in formation, and I wouldn't thinik the British commander would have his arm rasied giving the fire signal.

[MafiaMaster]

You're right, Commander, about those parts (no formation and no command to fire with the sword raised). However what must be remembered is that this was prime evidence used by the Americans to gain more support. It was propoganda and whether others were there or not, people followed what sounded good and the words of 'massacre' meant that the British were evil. I might understand that they had their bayonets already fixed. But to be in formation and the commanding officer giving the command to fire, that much I do not believe.

[tedkaw]

mafia hit the nail right on the head. this painting is nothing but propoganda to get the Americans fired up about going to war agaist the British.

The event however, was significant and was a turning point in the history of our country. We did not want to be taxed without being represented. Had England granted us this right... I can only imagine how the rest of the centuary would have panned out.

We might still be under british rule today.

[MafiaMaster]

Why should Britain grant us this right, though? I mean...We were a conquered land, we were under their control, why should we get a say? I know it's nice to get a say, but look at it in the eyes of the British. They sent soldiers here to conquer the land. They spent money to conquer the land and to protect it. They then provided the people with the land to use (Colonists). Why should Britain have granted taxation with representation? We didn't deserve it. What did we do to deserve to have representation?

[tedkaw]

By the time the 1770s rolled around, America had established a couple generations of home grown people. By that time not everyone was from England. They didn't consider themselves Brithish. Someone born in New York and had his own farm in New York who wanted to print any form of paper had to pay a stamp tax. Why?

He had no alliegence to the British throne and I completely understand why he would not want to be taxed to fund a land he's never seen.

America deserved representation because they were becoming a wealthy nation. If England was smart they would have given it to us.

[MafiaMaster]

Why give it to us? Britain conquered the land and ruled the land. It was their land. They were allowed to do what they wanted to do. America grew wealthy because of Britain. America grew prosperous because of Britain. Because Britain came in and protected the colonies during the French and Indian War, we had to pay taxes to pay back what the British lost. It happens, people get taxed. We were in a British colony, being protected by Britain and we were under their control; they did not have to give us anything.

[Ritocal]

Most people in the colonies would agree with MafiaMaster. They viewed themselves as British Citizens and part of the royal empire. Then there was a small group who also thought of themselves as British Citizens and wanted the same rights as other British Citizens in other parts of the world. Creating another country was not even a thought then. It was with the extreme measures and the total unwillingness to listen to the colonies that inflammed the situation. If England just agreed to listen... America would be a lot like Canada today.

[old_abe]

Most people in the colonies would agree with MafiaMaster. They viewed themselves as British Citizens and part of the royal empire. Then there was a small group who also thought of themselves as British Citizens and wanted the same rights as other British Citizens in other parts of the world. Creating another country was not even a thought then. It was with the extreme measures and the total unwillingness to listen to the colonies that inflammed the situation. If England just agreed to listen... America would be a lot like Canada today.

But that's what makes America great. We don't listen, we don't follow social norms. We like to stick out and do what we want and that's what has helped make America the most powerful country in the world.

If I was living back in 1776 I would have joined up in the Revolutionary army too and fought the British. I would have a sense of America being my own, and I wouldn't want some other people telling me what I can and can not do.

[MafiaMaster]

But old_abe, I have a question for you. You say you wouldn't let some other people tell you what you can and cannot do. You let the government of America decide what you can and cannot do. How come it's any different? Britain ruled America and they were primarily British people in America. Britain protected America. Britain boosted America's economy. How is it any different other than the fact you lived here and they lived there?

[tedkaw]

i think what abe was tryin to say is he wouldn't let someone on the other side of an ocean tell him what to do. Unfortunately, Mafia is right ... and there wasn't much Americans could do about it.

[Ritocal]

Why should Britain grant us this right, though? Why should Britain have granted taxation with representation? We didn't deserve it. What did we do to deserve to have representation?

Good questions. I'll let the Continental Congress answer it.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.

They then went on to list a whole bunch of specific reasons on why the Monarchy was not working for the people of the colonies.

[Commander]

Why should Britain grant us this right, though? Why should Britain have granted taxation with representation? We didn't deserve it. What did we do to deserve to have representation?

Good questions. I'll let the Continental Congress answer it.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.

They then went on to list a whole bunch of specific reasons on why the Monarchy was not working for the people of the colonies.

Check mate.

:D

[MafiaMaster]

Blah blah...Voltaire, Locke and all of those other enlightenment thinkers were all on crack. ;-) It says " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." For the simple fact that they allowed slavery after that was said, I cannot even say that they [colonies] deserve to have their liberty. "We want freedom! But the Blacks...They have to be slaves still..." Please, that's a hypocrites response like no other. We did not deserve our independence. I am glad we got it, don't get me wrong, but we had no reason to do it other than the fact we were annoying colonists that 'wanted to vote.' No, we just didn't want to pay the taxes...Greedy Americans...

[Ritocal]

We did not deserve our independence. I am glad we got it, don't get me wrong, but we had no reason to do it other than the fact we were annoying colonists that 'wanted to vote.' No, we just didn't want to pay the taxes...Greedy Americans...

First.. Everyone deserves Independence and whats wrong with wanting to vote? If I was born in London or Boston, I was a British Citizen. What did the guy in London do to deserve his right to vote? Why should someone in Boston not have the right to vote? Is the right to vote determined strictly by where you were born/live?

Second.. America was glad to pay taxes, they just wanted a say on what they pay taxes on. The slogan was "no taxation without representation" ... not "It's my money and you can't have it".

Third.. this is fun. Not everyday I get to quote the Declaration of Independence. :)

[MafiaMaster]

'Everyone deserves independence.' Communist! Nah, I'm joking with you. I'm just playing devil's advocate with you. It's fun to play the other side from time to time. America was not glad to pay the taxes. "No taxation without representation" was just their way of saying they didn't want to pay taxes. Do you like paying taxes now? No. Remember...In the beginning, a lot of people didn't even want there to be a Central Government and taxes and all of that...So, Americans definitely did not want to pay taxes. But...It was fun with our little debate. :)

[Ritocal]

I think taxes are one of those necessary evils of life.. like cell phones and infomercials.
I did gather you were playing devils advocate. Voltaire was on crack? *shake fist* ;)

This was fun. I'll meet you in Picture of the Week 3.

[MafiaMaster]

Yeah...Picture of the Week 3. Just remember...This time, you'll go down the drain real quick, my friend. Real fast!