Evolution of the Devil

[okamido]

How did the modern concept of the Devil come to place?

In Judaism, ha-satan was an angel, submissive to God, that made no overt evil in the world of man. In fact, it seems like his primary goal as "advesary" seemed to be one of testing man and pointing out their inadequacies to God.

Ibls/ Shaitan fell from favor with God because he refused to bow down to Adam which seemed as nothing more than unquestioned loyalty to God's own laws.

In revelations, the war for Heaven is brought to light after most likely existing in apocrypha text for who knows how long. Also through misinterpretation, the devil is named as Lucifer which we do not actually know is correct, but has fallen into the realm of "common knowledge".

So, I know there are quite a few people on our forum that are much more greatly immersed in this knowledge than I, what does everone think?

[Agonaces]

Ovid.

See Metamorphoses Book II (The Story of Phaeton): http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_text_ovid_meta_2.htm

Venus was a comet and the Egyptians started worshipping Isis/Neith (Venus) instead of Ra/Aten (the Sun).

Lucifer is the morning star Venus.

"Here you see the Morning Star [Venus]. Who sees the Morning Star shall see more, for he shall be wise." -- Black Elk, medicine man, August 1930

[Texadelphos]

How did the modern concept of the Devil come to place?

In Judaism, ha-satan was an angel, submissive to God, that made no overt evil in the world of man. In fact, it seems like his primary goal as "advesary" seemed to be one of testing man and pointing out their inadequacies to God.

Not a bad synopsis, though ha satan (meaning "adversary") is used for men, nations and angels; context then must rule the interpretation.


Understanding the OT concept of satan is imperative to understanding the sudden onslaught of demons, devils and satan in the New Testament, particularly in the gospels. Getting perspective on the distribution of demoniacs in 1st century Palestine (not to mention the distribution within the NT books) goes a long way in understanding the mindset during that time.

Also, intertestamental literature's (particularly the pseudepigrapha) influence on the people is paramount to understanding the topic.

[tjadams]

Satan was created to scare mankind into submission. He's the ultimate boogie-man.
"Follow me or you'll spend all time in a bad & painful place"

[Edgewaters]

Meh, its just the sort of syncretism typical with the rest of Christianity. In this case, someone brought in some Zoroastrian concepts, perhaps indirectly, and the end result is that we have an Ahriman-like figure.

[Texadelphos]

Satan was created to scare mankind into submission. He's the ultimate boogie-man.
"Follow me or you'll spend all time in a bad & painful place"

Only if one is prone to superstition. But, it certainly didn't come from the Bible.

[oshron]

(walks into thread, sees the subject, and wipes sweat from his brow) im SOO glad that this thread isnt about what i thought it would be about

if one assumes that God and the Devil are not real entities (im just speaking hyptothetically here), then it could be guessed that the Devil was invented to even things out, the evil to God's good. but if thats the case, then what is teh neutral moderating force between teh two?

[Texadelphos]

Meh, its just the sort of syncretism typical with the rest of Christianity.

It is what Christianity developed into, not what it was at its inception.

In this case, someone brought in some Zoroastrian concepts, perhaps indirectly, and the end result is that we have an Ahriman-like figure.

There is truth to this, but it was Judaism that incorporated dualism into their religious beliefs as a result of the Babylonian captivity, not Christianity. The early Christians defended the monotheism of the OT canon as they rejected the dualism of 1st century Palestine and pagan beliefs of the Roman Empire.

[Texadelphos]

(walks into thread, sees the subject, and wipes sweat
if one assumes that God and the Devil are not real entities (im just speaking hyptothetically here), then it could be guessed that the Devil was invented to even things out, the evil to God's good.

I have to refresh myself on this, but I recall that dualism in religion -- and I have to largely confine this to the ANE -- wasn't known before the 5th century BCE. I realize some believe Zoroastrianism to date back to at least the 1st millenium BCE, but that is disputed.

Deities in the ANE were akin to the Greek pantheon, with no truly 100% good gods and 100% bad ones. They were largely tribal (or regional), which is seen even in the OT.

[vera]

Not a bad synopsis, though ha satan (meaning "adversary") is used for men, nations and angels; context then must rule the interpretation.
Please explain what you mean, I did not understand you.

[oshron]

as i understand it, he's just saying that the word "satan" actually just means something along the lines of opposition; it was more of a job description than an actual name (ie, the Devil is The Satan, not NAMED Satan)

[Chookie]

Many Christians believe that the Devil, also known as Satan or Lucifer, to be a fallen angel who attempted to overthrow God and was expelled from heaven, along with the rest of the fallen angels. They credit them with being able to tempt mankind towards sin, have the power possess the minds and bodies of humans, and inflict physical and mental illness. He rules over Hell and uses the other demonic angels to assist him in corrupting humanity. He's also oversees the eternal torment of sinners who have been condemned by God to Hell.

That's from: http://englishatheist.org/indexz26.shtml

Is Satan the Devil?

This from Job 2.

2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

2:2 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

2:3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

That seems to suggest that Satan was a son of god - albeit an earlier vintage - just as Jesus was.

It appears that the modern Christian concept of the Devil is based on, and is an aggregation of Beelzebub, Baal, Asmodemus, Belial (who equates to Loki in the Norse pantheon) and a few others. These were, for the most part Middle Eastern gods or godlings.

[vera]

as i understand it, he's just saying that the word "satan" actually just means something along the lines of opposition; it was more of a job description than an actual name (ie, the Devil is The Satan, not NAMED Satan)
Yes, I know what the name means, I just don't understand this "nations&angels" phrase in relation with this angel.

[Texadelphos]

Yes, I know what the name means, I just don't understand this "nations&angels" phrase in relation with this angel.

'Satan' is not a personal name in the OT canon. It is a word meaning ‘adversary', such as --
Numbers 22:22 where it is used of an obedient angel
1 Kings 11:14, 23-24 and Psalm 109:6-8 where it is used of mortal men
1 Chronicles 21:1 where it is used of an enemy nation.Then, of course, there is Matthew 16:23 and Mark 8:33 where Jesus calls Peter Satan for opposing him.

[vera]

'Satan' is not a personal name in the OT canon. It is a word meaning ‘adversary', such as --
Numbers 22:22 where it is used of an obedient angel
1 Kings 11:14, 23-24 and Psalm 109:6-8 where it is used of mortal men
1 Chronicles 21:1 where it is used of an enemy nation.
OK, thank you. Yes, I know it is not his personal name but a symbolic name, I just did not understand your meaning.

[Texadelphos]

You're welcome.

[Kuon]

How did the modern concept of the Devil come to place?

In Judaism, ha-satan was an angel, submissive to God, that made no overt evil in the world of man. In fact, it seems like his primary goal as "advesary" seemed to be one of testing man and pointing out their inadequacies to God.

Ibls/ Shaitan fell from favor with God because he refused to bow down to Adam which seemed as nothing more than unquestioned loyalty to God's own laws.

In revelations, the war for Heaven is brought to light after most likely existing in apocrypha text for who knows how long. Also through misinterpretation, the devil is named as Lucifer which we do not actually know is correct, but has fallen into the realm of "common knowledge".

So, I know there are quite a few people on our forum that are much more greatly immersed in this knowledge than I, what does everone think?

An interesting video on this subject:

vodpod: The History of the Devil (http://vodpod.com/watch/1416952-stumblevideo-guba-the-history-of-the-devil-?)