America in Vietnam, 1963: Deeper Into War

James Bond for England · Jan 23, 2013

In Mekong Delta, Vietnam troops ( South VN ) take comunist prisoners ( North VN ) to HQ

"In Airborne strike last week Vietnamese scramble for American H-21 helicopters landing to ferry them into action near Saigon. The two-day action was successful."

. "Bogged in bottomless mud in the Mekong Delta, a Vietnamese clings to a rope as a buddy helps snake him free. They were in an unsuccessful amphibious operation."

"Sweeping low across enemy-infested scrubland, U.S. pilot-instructor watches Vietnamese napalm strike. Object of the fire bombing is to sear the foliage and flush the enemy into the open."

"U.S. H-21 helicopter arrives in combat area with supplies for a Vietnamese patrol. It flew out wounded soldiers."

"In a hostile village Vietnamese infantrymen warily move past hut they set ablaze after they found it held Communist literature."

"In large-scale probe of the Mekong Delta, Vietnamese soldiers wade into a canal to put their equipment aboard boats. The amphibious operation was designed to ferret out small parties of Communist guerillas hiding out in the nearby flooded paddies."

"With his trigger finger at the ready and rifle aimed, a Vietnamese soldier flushes a man and a boy -- suspected of being Viet Cong -- from a paddy where he found them hiding. Night-fighting guerillas look like any of the region's calico-clad peasants by day."

"Vietcong soldiers, trapped and shot down in the Delta, lie dead on a nearby shore beside their flag while captured comrades huddle in defeat. Americans in the picture were advisers to the Vietnamese."

"A captured Viet Cong kneels in terror as Vietnamese guard threatens him with bayonet. The guard demanded to know where arms were hidden. No reply. The guard let him go to a prison camp unharmed. In interrogating prisoners each side in the Vietnam war occasionally resorts to terror."

"Stripped to the waist and tightly bound, a Viet Cong prisoner is bundled into a Jeep for ride to army headquarters for interrogation. He was questioned about rebel positions, was not harmed."

"Vietnamese pile out of H-21 helicopter near Rach Gia. They flushed out 15 Viet Congs."

"A crewman of a machine-gun-armed escort helicopter searches flat terrain."

"U.S. Ranger Captain Jeff Tuten, 29, of De Land, Fla. looks for a landing place. Captain Tuten says, 'I think we're on the winning side.'"

Source:Vietnam 1963 by Larry Burrows | Vietnam in 1963: Color Photographs by LIFE Magazine’s Larry Burrows | LIFE.com

What did u think about Vietnam war? North VN ( supported by Soviet and China ) and South VN ( supported by Allies ), which was correct?

Rongo · Jan 23, 2013

Good pics, James. I'm not sure that either side was "correct"; I just wish the U.S. would have stayed out of it.

Dave W. · Jan 23, 2013

The great irony of Vietnam is that the US keeps doing the same thing over and over again history be damned.

Hello, A'stan. And don't blame GWB.

Dave W.

rvsakhadeo · Jan 23, 2013

@James Bond for England
You could have added the infamous My Lai slaughter pictures -- also from Life magazine.

constantine · Jan 23, 2013

The poverty and destitution under a planned communist economy in the decade or two after the war seem to me to be adequate justification for our initial intervention. The people suffered horribly, not so much from target killings as in China and the USSR, but because of criminal economic mismanagement by the communist party. Fortunately, the Vietnamese are an intelligent and pragmatic people, they are slowly getting rid of this planned economy nonsense and their standard of living is rising dramatically as a result.

Dave W. · Jan 23, 2013

As to causes of the war in Vietnam one needs to investigate the SEATO arrangement which the JFK Administration pledged to support. The US took up Vietnam shortly after the French were defeated in 1954 at Diem Biem Phu. (as we did in A'stan)

So don't blame Vietnam on GWB! (sigh)

Dave W.

James Bond for England · Jan 23, 2013

Rongo said:
Good pics, James. I'm not sure that either side was "correct"; I just wish the U.S. would have stayed out of it.

Dave W. said:
The great irony of Vietnam is that the US keeps doing the same thing over and over again history be damned.

Hello, A'stan. And don't blame GWB.

Dave W.

Why?

I think the U.S just want to help South VN against "Red-Communist" widespeard from China. For justice... Personal speaking, actualy Vietnam war happened by Domino Theory.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory"]Domino theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Ancientgeezer · Jan 23, 2013

To paraphrase Bismark. War are like sausages, it is best not to watch them being made.

Moral of the story--don't let the cameras see you grinding up, shredding and blowing away the enemy. The vicars, the dear old mums and the willy whooftahs get terribly upset.

Nemowork · Jan 23, 2013

rvsakhadeo said:
@James Bond for England
You could have added the infamous My Lai slaughter pictures -- also from Life magazine.

The thread is 1963, My Lai wasnt until 1968.

James Bond for England · Jan 23, 2013

Ancientgeezer said:
To paraphrase Bismark. War are like sausages, it is best not to watch them being made.

Moral of the story--don't let the cameras see you grinding up, shredding and blowing away the enemy. The vicars, the dear old mums and the willy whooftahs get terribly upset.

No no... This is not "watch" .

These pictures is warned to us about a terrible of war. Perhaps the photographer taken these pictures also thought like me.

James Bond for England · Jan 23, 2013

constantine said:
The poverty and destitution under a planned communist economy in the decade or two after the war seem to me to be adequate justification for our initial intervention. The people suffered horribly, not so much from target killings as in China and the USSR, but because of criminal economic mismanagement by the communist party. Fortunately, the Vietnamese are an intelligent and pragmatic people, they are slowly getting rid of this planned economy nonsense and their standard of living is rising dramatically as a result.

So what do u think about China.? China is being lead by Communist Party and the initial of China was Zero, but now they are 2 of 10 largest economic in the world.

constantine · Jan 23, 2013

James Bond for England said:
So what do u think about China.? China is being lead by Communist Party and the initial of China was Zero, but now they are 2 of 10 largest economic in the world.

They are being lead by the Communist Party, but the Communist Party is fascist, not communist. They had terrible problems at the beginning and things really didn't start to improve until Deng's economic policies were put in place, market liberalization and free trade have allowed them to grow as they have. But China started much earlier than Vietnam and still has some fundamental and difficult to overcome problems related to overpopulation. It's far more difficult to modernize a large country than a small one, in many ways, such as infrastructure, the US is far behind other countries...but the size of the country makes modernizing it incredibly expensive.

rvsakhadeo · Jan 23, 2013

Nemowork said:
The thread is 1963, My Lai wasnt until 1968.

Yes, I know that .

Rongo · Jan 24, 2013

James Bond for England said:
Why?

I think the U.S just want to help South VN against "Red-Communist" widespeard from China. For justice... Personal speaking, actualy Vietnam war happened by Domino Theory.

Domino theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States cannot be, and should not be, the world's policeman. I understand and sympathize with the plight of the South Vietnamese people, but I also understand that the South Vietnamese government was horribly corrupt and that overall the majority of Vietnamese preferred communism and Ho Chi Minh, as horrible as he was.

It was a civil war. If the U.S. had stayed out of it, it would have ended with the same result, just a lot earlier and with fewer deaths and less destruction.

constantine · Jan 24, 2013

Rongo said:
The United States cannot be, and should not be, the world's policeman. I understand and sympathize with the plight of the South Vietnamese people, but I also understand that the South Vietnamese government was horribly corrupt and that overall the majority of Vietnamese preferred communism and Ho Chi Minh, as horrible as he was.

It was a civil war. If the U.S. had stayed out of it, it would have ended with the same result, just a lot earlier and with fewer deaths and less destruction.

We had obligations under SEATO to defend government of South Vietnam and halt the spread of communism. Plus, it was not a simple civil war, the North was being equipped and supplied by the Soviets and the Chinese. Had we fought the war correctly, including expeditions to the north and the conquest of Hanoi, we may have been able to force peace of favourable terms. The war was right and just, the manner in which it was fought was appalling.

Also, I disagree with your statement about not being the world's policeman, as the dominate naval power that's exactly what we are, by necessity. The preservation and enhancement of international trade is our responsibility and when communism takes another country, we have failed in our responsibility.

Rongo · Jan 24, 2013

constantine said:
We had obligations under SEATO to defend government of South Vietnam and halt the spread of communism. Plus, it was not a simple civil war, the North was being equipped and supplied by the Soviets and the Chinese. Had we fought the war correctly, including expeditions to the north and the conquest of Hanoi, we may have been able to force peace of favourable terms. The war was right and just, the manner in which it was fought was appalling.

Well, I certainly will agree that the manner in which the war was fought was appalling, but we had no business being in SEATO in the first place. President Eishenhower knew full well that a united Vietnam under the rule of Ho Chi Minh had the support of the vast majority of the Vietnamese people. Opposing the will of the Vietnamese people was the prescription for the inevitable disaster that would follow, regardless of how the ensuing war was fought.

spiller · Jan 24, 2013

constantine said:
We had obligations under SEATO to defend government of South Vietnam and halt the spread of communism. Plus, it was not a simple civil war, the North was being equipped and supplied by the Soviets and the Chinese. Had we fought the war correctly, including expeditions to the north and the conquest of Hanoi, we may have been able to force peace of favourable terms. The war was right and just, the manner in which it was fought was appalling.

Also, I disagree with your statement about not being the world's policeman, as the dominate naval power that's exactly what we are, by necessity. The preservation and enhancement of international trade is our responsibility and when communism takes another country, we have failed in our responsibility.

the us shouldent have faught the war at all they could have supplied south vietnam with supplies like the soviets and chinese did in the north or they could have aided the french in their fight(but i can see why they didnt). and just because your the dominant naval power doesent mean you need to be the worlds policeman.

constantine · Jan 24, 2013

Rongo said:
Well, I certainly will agree that the manner in which the war was fought was appalling, but we had no business being in SEATO in the first place. President Eishenhower knew full well that a united Vietnam under the rule of Ho Chi Minh had the support of the vast majority of the Vietnamese people. Opposing the will of the Vietnamese people was the prescription for the inevitable disaster that would follow, regardless of how the ensuing war was fought.

I won't pretend to know the will of the unwashed masses or even pretend that I care. But it seems pretty clear that the majority of the land owning, mercantile, and professional classes, everyone who meant something, wanted US protection from communism. That, combined with our SEATO obligations, put us in a position where failing to go in would have been a stain on our national honour. But then again, pulling out before we secured the freedom of South Vietnam was probably even worse.

constantine · Jan 24, 2013

spiller said:
the us shouldent have faught the war at all they could have supplied south vietnam with supplies like the soviets and chinese did in the north or they could have aided the french in their fight(but i can see why they didnt).

The US had been trying to get the French out since the end of WWII, they were still in the mindset of viewing European empires as a threat to their trade interests, even though they really weren't after the war. The US started with supplies and advisers, but as the situation became less tenable our Vietnamese allies could hardly be simply abandoned to the ravages of Communism.

and just because your the dominant naval power doesent mean you need to be the worlds policeman.

The fact that the US is the only country with the capability to police the world inherently gives the US this responsibility. Just as it was Britain's responsibility before.

Rongo · Jan 24, 2013

constantine said:
I won't pretend to know the will of the unwashed masses or even pretend that I care. But it seems pretty clear that the majority of the land owning, mercantile, and professional classes, everyone who meant something, wanted US protection from communism. That, combined with our SEATO obligations, put us in a position where failing to go in would have been a stain on our national honour. But then again, pulling out before we secured the freedom of South Vietnam was probably even worse.

Like I said, we should never have joined SEATO in the first place. It was already known at that time how the "unwashed masses" felt. And as it was, the whole affair was a massive stain on our national honor, and never could have been anything otherwise.

I'll let the rest of your statement speak for itself.

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America in Vietnam, 1963: Deeper Into War

James Bond for England

Rongo

Dave W.

rvsakhadeo

constantine

Dave W.

James Bond for England

Ancientgeezer

Nemowork

James Bond for England

James Bond for England

constantine

rvsakhadeo

Rongo

constantine

Rongo

spiller

constantine

constantine

Rongo

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