Indigenous metal artifacts in the Pacific-Northwest

hama · Jul 6, 2017

I wanted to open this thread for anyone interested in discussing metal artifacts and indigenous metalworking among the Native nations of the Pacific-Northwest region of North America.

To start us off, regarding metal tools found in the Ozette Village site I read in the book 'Encyclopedia of Prehistory: Volume 2' (edited by Peter N. Peregrine and Melvin Ember) that the source of the iron artifacts is unknown. However I just came across a claim on wikipedia (this article) that some "presume" that the iron bits may have drifted on shipwrecks from Asia.

It's wikipedia after all so I don't want to trust it too implicitly, but this is the first I've heard of that theory and I was curious if anyone here has heard it before or read anything on it? I've also heard theories that at one point there may have been some pre-European trade between Alaska and Asia via the Aleutians and that iron could have found its way down to the Northwest that way, but as of now I haven't read anything academic to back that up...

I know that some Northwest cultures like the Haida had crafting skills with copper before contact with Europeans (you can read a bit here if you're interested). But I haven't heard much about iron working being used among Northwest cultures, at least not as something from pre-European times. I'm happy to be proved wrong though if anybody knows better.

Edratman · Jul 6, 2017

There also is the possibility of meteoric iron which would be more probable than drifting on shipwrecks.

hama · Jul 7, 2017

Edratman said:
There also is the possibility of meteoric iron which would be more probable than drifting on shipwrecks.

That's a good point, I remember reading a while back that some Inuit groups may have worked with meteoric iron. I don't know enough about the iron found at the Ozette Village site (or anywhere else in the Pacific-Northwest) to know if there have been studies on it to determine whether that could have been the source?

dvch · Jul 7, 2017

I see no reason why ship wreaks could not be the source. In modern times all sort of stuff from Japan washes up on the NA Pacific coast. And any large events could add lots more.

https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2015/mar/17/japan-tsunami-earthquake-debris-us-shore

hama · Jul 7, 2017

I can't remember the name offhand but there are certain currents that were capable of carrying vessels from Japan to the west coast, and accounts of vessels and their crews arriving in the Northwest have been documented (as well as referenced in local oral histories). Definitely not inconceivable that iron could have reached certain coastal nations by sea. But what I'm curious about is if there's been any study on the iron artefacts from Ozette Village (or indeed any other indigenous sites) that could help determine their origin? I've read that the copper used by Northwest tribes was usually the naturally occurring "native copper" type, but as for the iron found at places like Ozette Village does anyone know if there have been tests done that might help determine things like origin (e.g whether it might have been meteoric or otherwise)?

David K · Jul 8, 2017

There are legends or historic truth that the Chinese (Asians) arrived in North America well before the Europeans. One story, if I have the details correct, is that a Chinese monk named Hoei-Shin traveled to a strange new world in the year 499.

Heritage History | Homeschool History Curriculum | Eric the Red by George Upton

Hoei-Shin in America - Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums

Much later, in 1611, a documented Japanese envoy traveled to Mexico to open trade with 'New Spain.'

The point is that the Pacific Current enables sailing vessels to travel from Asia to North America and a return current near the equator permits the return voyage. The Manila Galleon used this route to trade with Asia from Acapulco, Mexico during Spain's rule.

hama · Jul 8, 2017

Yep I agree with you with regards to the currents, though I'm always wary of those claims of "chinese monks" and such arriving in America. Too often I feel they're used to try and justify the myth that American nations were incapable of developing advanced societies without outside help.

Regardless the currents and cases of ships occasionally drifting on them from places like Japan are well known and factual, so I'd definitely consider that one possibility of how some Northwest nations acquired iron. But I guess so far nobody here knows whether there have been any scientific tests done to try and determine the origin of certain iron objects in Northwest indigenous sites? As I mentioned earlier I've heard some Inuit were known to use meteoric iron, so that's another possibility I'm also not ruling out (and thanks to Edratman for jogging my memory on it). It's also possible that, even if there were no nearby sources of meteoric iron for certain Northwest nations, they may have acquired it or objects made of it through extended trade networks farther north to people who had it (like the Inuit).

Still no idea whether the theory of possible trading between northeast Asia and northwest America via the Aleutians has any proof to it. Anyone here know anything?

Hanslune · Jul 9, 2017

hama said:
Yep I agree with you with regards to the currents, though I'm always wary of those claims of "chinese monks" and such arriving in America. Too often I feel they're used to try and justify the myth that American nations were incapable of developing advanced societies without outside help.

Regardless the currents and cases of ships occasionally drifting on them from places like Japan are well known and factual, so I'd definitely consider that one possibility of how some Northwest nations acquired iron. But I guess so far nobody here knows whether there have been any scientific tests done to try and determine the origin of certain iron objects in Northwest indigenous sites? As I mentioned earlier I've heard some Inuit were known to use meteoric iron, so that's another possibility I'm also not ruling out (and thanks to Edratman for jogging my memory on it). It's also possible that, even if there were no nearby sources of meteoric iron for certain Northwest nations, they may have acquired it or objects made of it through extended trade networks farther north to people who had it (like the Inuit).

Still no idea whether the theory of possible trading between northeast Asia and northwest America via the Aleutians has any proof to it. Anyone here know anything?

The Inuit on both sides of the Bering sea were in contact with each other for thousands of years before Columbus. The old joke was that the Siberian Inuit were discovering the Americas on a weekly bases - just no one noticed or cared.

hama · Jul 10, 2017

Hanslune said:
The Inuit on both sides of the Bering sea were in contact with each other for thousands of years before Columbus. The old joke was that the Siberian Inuit were discovering the Americas on a weekly bases - just no one noticed or cared.

That's interesting, so do you know if there's evidence that they had any extended trading links with Siberian peoples like the Chukchi or Koryaks? I read that the Koryaks probably had some limited access to iron objects before European contact through trade links with people like the Yakuts and Kuril islanders (the latter of whom would have acquired it via Japan).

Pilgrim · Jul 10, 2017

hama said:
I wanted to open this thread for anyone interested in discussing metal artifacts and indigenous metalworking among the Native nations of the Pacific-Northwest region of North America.

To start us off, regarding metal tools found in the Ozette Village site I read in the book 'Encyclopedia of Prehistory: Volume 2' (edited by Peter N. Peregrine and Melvin Ember) that the source of the iron artifacts is unknown. However I just came across a claim on wikipedia (this article) that some "presume" that the iron bits may have drifted on shipwrecks from Asia.

It's wikipedia after all so I don't want to trust it too implicitly, but this is the first I've heard of that theory and I was curious if anyone here has heard it before or read anything on it? I've also heard theories that at one point there may have been some pre-European trade between Alaska and Asia via the Aleutians and that iron could have found its way down to the Northwest that way, but as of now I haven't read anything academic to back that up...

I know that some Northwest cultures like the Haida had crafting skills with copper before contact with Europeans (you can read a bit here if you're interested). But I haven't heard much about iron working being used among Northwest cultures, at least not as something from pre-European times. I'm happy to be proved wrong though if anybody knows better.

The Wikipedia article gives a fairly respectable source for the idea that the Ozette Village iron came from flotsam, but that is mere speculation.
Even if true the people there would have to have been able to work the iron and that requires skill in metallurgy, etc.; for example, to turn a bolt into a blade.

Are there any local sources of iron ore?

hama · Jul 10, 2017

Pilgrim said:
The Wikipedia article gives a fairly respectable source for the idea that the Ozette Village iron came from flotsam, but that is mere speculation.
Even if true the people there would have to have been able to work the iron and that requires skill in metallurgy, etc.; for example, to turn a bolt into a blade.

Are there any local sources of iron ore?

There are definitely iron ore deposits to the south in northern Oregon (such as around Lake Oswego where much of Oregon's 19th c. iron industry was located) but I actually don't know enough about the part of Washington near the Ozette village site to say offhand whether there were iron ore deposits there. I'll have to do a bit of research on that. If anyone here knows please do contribute.

Regarding metal crafting skills we know that people like the Haida at least had the basic knowledge to be able to work tools out of 'native copper' deposits, though I'm still not sure whether that crafting extended to iron. I was hoping there'd be some folks here who might know a bit more on the topic, since it's one I find quite interesting but unfortunately am not super well read on.

sculptingman · Jul 10, 2017

Pilgrim said:
The Wikipedia article gives a fairly respectable source for the idea that the Ozette Village iron came from flotsam, but that is mere speculation.
Even if true the people there would have to have been able to work the iron and that requires skill in metallurgy, etc.; for example, to turn a bolt into a blade.

Are there any local sources of iron ore?

Any culture that can work copper, can work iron, if they FIND some.

They know that heat melts copper- and while the same heat won't melt iron- it WILL get it soft enough to forge.

So- FOUND iron requires zero knowledge of metallurgy to work. Just a knowledge of fire.

The problem has always been FINDING it. metallic iron is exceedingly rare in an oxidizing environment.
Meteoric iron is rarer than gold.

But there is a primary current that would carry anything that floats from the area of japan to the pacific northwest.

Both oceanic current and wind currents. ( the japanese used these air currents to launch balloon bombs in japan, that landed in the pacific northwest.)

In fact... a large quantity of debris that the recent tsunami washed out to sea off japan ended up washing ashore in BC, Washington, and Oregon... including an entire abandoned fishing trawler.

It is perfectly possible that chunks of planking, decking or other sections of ships ended up ashore, with the rotting wood making the iron parts easy to extract.

It is also possible that some of it arrived thru trade networks.

The Pacific Northwest is also chock full of active volcanoes, which can spit up metallic iron along with silicate rocks when they blow.

hama · Jul 10, 2017

For those interested, regarding metalworking in the Northwest this article goes in to a lot of detail on the crafting and use of copper items by groups like the Tlingit: https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/metallurgy-of-the-tlingit-dene-and-eskimo/

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Indigenous metal artifacts in the Pacific-Northwest

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