16th Century Japanese Samurai Army against European Contemporaries

tornada · Oct 3, 2013

Naomasa298 said:
It's a myth. Not all samurai were warriors, and the whole bushido thing is largely an Edo period invention.

During the Sengoku period, there were different classes of samurai, from those who were full-time warriors through to the jizamurai (farmer-samurai), and down to the lowly ashigaru, who were in fact, not samurai and basically peasants on campaign. The ashigaru might be levies or part-time fighters. The difference between them and the jizamurai was a matter of status (as a jizamurai was a samurai, an ashigaru was not).

After Hideyoshi's Edict on Changing Status, the ashigaru would become samurai, albeit the lowliest class of samurai.

The amount of training any particular samurai had would obviously depend on his family, his resources, his personal bent and how involved his clan was in warfare.

hashashini said:
Yes, but they also route during battles just like other warriors, not like what you see on Hollywood, like most of them have suicidal tendencies.

The Janissaries, were boys kidnapped from Christian families around the ottoman empire, to serve the Sultan. They were converted to Islam and were trained since childhood for war. Some of the most successful ones became bureaucrats and Grand Vizers.

ok. Thanks for the info on the Samurai. However i never said they didn't break or run, merely that they had a reputation for being very very well trained. But i'm also nearly clueless on Japanese history. If you guys say that's a myth, i'm not offering a counter.

Ajathashatru · Oct 3, 2013

Is samurai also like Ninja's..?? mythical Assassins..?? What is their historical importance?? please explain someone..

tornada · Oct 3, 2013

Ajathashatru said:
Is samurai also like Ninja's..?? mythical Assassins..?? What is their historical importance?? please explain someone..

The Samurai were kinda like the Japanese Kshatriya class. They were a warrior class who largely comprised of the Nobility and aristocracy of Japanese society. They (and ninjas) are certainly not mythical.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai]Samurai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

For Ninjas -
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja]Ninja - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

They certainly have exaggerated stories and depictions in both history and modern times, but that's like the exaggerated depictions of the "chivalrous" knights or the near superhuman depictions of American special forces in television and movies

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

hashashini said:
The only time they fought outside Japan was against the Koreans and Chinese... They've lost.

I want to discuss how would a Japanese Samurai army during this period would fare against its European Contemporaries which I think had far more superior army that those of Koreans and Chinese.

I'm just too annoyed to see that people blindly assume that ancient Chinese armies were a bunch of ragtag peasants who fought without armor.

Quite the opposite to what you might assume, the Chinese were the ones who first invented gunpowder during the 10th century AD.

By the time of the Ming Dynasty in the 16th century, the Chinese had already developed a whole array of gunpowder-based weapons including handguns, fire lances, flamethrowers, rocket arrows, bombs, grenades, landmines, naval mines, cannons, etc.

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming arquebusiers volley fire formation

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming landmines

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming rocket

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming Nest of Bees rocket launcher containing 32 rocket arrows

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming Crouching-Tiger mortar

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming rocket wheelbarrows (rocket launchers mounted on wheelbarrows)

Koreans stole this idea from the Ming and they made their own version of it called Hwacha.

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ming naval mine

Basically, what the Ming Chinese did was that they placed a bomb inside ox bladders, and they attached it onto a small wooden raft. The slow-burning fuse was also placed inside sheep intestines. They let this thing drift along the river, and thus they created the world's first naval mine.

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Three-barrel pole gun

This was by far the most commonly used Ming firearm. Some Ming infantrymen still used it even after the adoption of European arquebus.

It was easy to use, it could fire three rounds before reloading, and it could also be used as a mace when out of ammo.

Ming infantryman with his three-barrel pole gun

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Stone mortar or stone bomb

wKgBtE-aKTH4k27kAAGTO_Sgd-c82.groupinfo.w600.jpeg

This was sort of a makeshift weapon. The concept behind it is very simple: you find a rock, make it into a cylindrical shape, drill a hole on it, and put some gunpowder mixtures inside it. This thing could be mass-produced if needed, because there are tons of rocks on the mountains surrounding the Great Wall. Archaeologists have discovered many stone mortars like this along the wall, dating back to the Ming period.

I'm not quite sure if this was actually used as a mortar or as a bomb. I remember that I saw a documentary on Ming history where the archaeologists recreated a stone bomb similar to this one on the photo. They ignited it with a fuse, and then they kicked this thing down the wall. There was a huge blast and pieces of rock were fallen everywhere.

Naomasa298 · Oct 3, 2013

Ajathashatru said:
Is samurai also like Ninja's..?? mythical Assassins..?? What is their historical importance?? please explain someone..

Ninjas make baby Jesus cry.

They are not black pyjama-clad, shuriken throwing, straight-sword wielding, dishonourable super-assassin cross-dressers. Read all about ninjas:
http://historum.com/asian-history/23930-let-s-talk-ninjas.html

Edgewaters · Oct 3, 2013

All the gadgetry is neat, but none of it is as useful as this:

Naomasa298 · Oct 3, 2013

Edgewaters said:
All the gadgetry is neat, but none of it is as useful as this:

Unless the battle is being fought 1000 miles inland.

Edgewaters · Oct 3, 2013

Naomasa298 said:
Unless the battle is being fought 1000 miles inland.

Even then, it can cut trade and weaken armies hundreds of miles away, deny reinforcements (or ship them), etc.

purakjelia · Oct 3, 2013

Ships and large cannons were not unique European weapons. Ming also had large warships and large cannons.

Here is a Ming cast-iron cannon, dating back to the reign of Emperor Wanli (1573 to 1620)

hashashini · Oct 3, 2013

The pictures of weapons you posted looks low quality to me during that time compared to European weapons. Even when restored today, European weapons looks much better. Quality wise, European weapons > Chinese weapons. You could tell based on their age, They were made like the same time, but weapons from Europe today still looks fresher than those you posted.

Edgewaters · Oct 3, 2013

purakjelia said:
Ships and large cannons were not unique European weapons. Ming also had large warships and large cannons.

Here is a Ming cast-iron cannon, dating back to the reign of Emperor Wanli (1573 to 1620)

Europeans had cannon mounted on ships not long after they had cannon, but there's a huge difference between doing this with cannon:

And doing this:

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16th Century Japanese Samurai Army against European Contemporaries

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