˓irāq-i ˓arab, ˓irāq-i ˓adjam?

H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
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Switzerland
Last edited:
[FONT=&quot]Dear all,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Could someone explain me or help me find out about the historical origins of the notions of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]irāq-i [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]arab and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]irāq-i [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]adjam? I would also like to know their approximate territorial meaning as recorded in Arabic, Persian and other primary sources. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am also interested, though to a lesser extent, in the etymology of the word [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]irāq. I have read and heard quite a few contradictory explanations. Some deem it a geographical notion, from Middle-Persian erāq (low lands). But if I’m not mistaken, at least part of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]irāq-i [/FONT][FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT][FONT=&quot]adjam is located on the Zagros. This region is all but flat and low.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Could someone help me or share some bibliographical elements that could help me?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank you in advance[/FONT]
 
Challenger

Challenger

Joined Feb 2009
573 Posts | 1+
-Arab and -Adjam were and are suffixes that define those who speak Arabic and those who don't. In the Conquest period the Adjami were initially all non-Arabs, but gradually the word became synonymous with Persians, for example “Sajjad al Ajami” = “Persian Carpet”. Originaly a perjorative term, it eventually became a simple term to define a geographical area or an ethic group (in this case Persia/Persians). So Iraq-i-Adjam would cover all those areas of Iraq where the people's first language is not Arabic.
 
H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
18 Posts | 0+
Switzerland
Challenger said:
-Arab and -Adjam were and are suffixes that define those who speak Arabic and those who don't. In the Conquest period the Adjami were initially all non-Arabs, but gradually the word became synonymous with Persians, for example “Sajjad al Ajami” = “Persian Carpet”. Originaly a perjorative term, it eventually became a simple term to define a geographical area or an ethic group (in this case Persia/Persians). So Iraq-i-Adjam would cover all those areas of Iraq where the people's first language is not Arabic.
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Thank you very much for your answer. From what I gather though, al-[FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]ir[FONT=&quot]ā[/FONT]q al-[FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]ajami would not be located within modern Iraq’s boundaries, but within those of Iran, covering part of the Zagros range and beyond, well out of what was usually called [FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]ir[FONT=&quot]ā[/FONT]q in late Ottoman times and thereafter (to my knowledge). The Safavid and Qajar monarchs referred to a region of Iran called [FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]ir[FONT=&quot]ā[/FONT]q-i [FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]ajam, as opposed to [FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]ir[FONT=&quot]ā[/FONT]q-i [FONT=&quot]˓[/FONT]arab, the latter corresponding more or less to modern Iraq, the Mosul region excluded. So I was wondering about the approximate territories those notions were referring to (I only have a very vague idea), and also about the historical meaning of “Iraq”, given that the two regions do not bear much geographical resemblance. One is mainly constituted of the flatlands of the Mesopotamian plain, the other is very mountainous.
Thank you again.
Hassan
 
H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
18 Posts | 0+
Switzerland
This article of the Encyclopaedia Iranica answers my question very well :

"ʿERĀQ-EʿAJAM(Ī) “Persian Iraq,” the name given in medieval times to the largely mountainous, western portion of modern Persia. The geographers (Eṣṭaḵrī, p. 195; Ebn Ḥawqal, pp. 357-58, tr. Kramers and Wiet, pp. 349-50; Moqaddasī, pp. 384-86; Ḥodūd al-ʿālam, tr. Minorsky, p. 131; Yāqūt, Boldān [Beirut], II, p. 99) describe it as bounded by Fārs and Ḵūzestān on the south, Mesopotamia (i.e., Iraq proper) on the west, Azerbaijan, Deylam and Qūmes on the north and the Kūh-e Kargas and Great Desert on the east. It thus corresponds to the ancient Persian Media (Ar. Māḏa), at the outset of Islam comprising Māh al-Kūfa, based on Dīnavar, and Māh al-Baṣra, based on Nehāvand.

Because of the mountainous configuration of the province (which included much of modern Kurdistan and Luristan), the early Islamic geographers called it Jebāl “the mountains.” But this name fell out of use during Saljuq times (5th-6th/11th-12th centuries), and the misnomer ʿErāq was applied to it with the qualification ʿAjam(ī) “Persian.” Yāqūt (loc. cit.) explains the process whereby this had happened: The Saljuq sultans came to rule over both Iraq proper and the region of Jebāl, hence were styled solṭān al-ʿErāq, but since their capital came normally to be at Hamadān in Jebāl, the latter province became known as ʿErāq. The two regions came in fact to be distinguished as ʿErāq-e ʿArab and ʿErāq-e ʿAjam. Certainly, the name Jebāl became obsolete after the Mongol invasions of the 7th/13th century. In the next century, Mostawfī [...] knew it only as ʿErāq-e ʿAjamī [...]"

BOSWORTH, Edmund, “ʿErāq-e ʿAjamī”, Encyclopaedia Iranica Online, December 15, 1998.
 
Efendi

Efendi

Joined Jul 2009
12,444 Posts | 21+
Anatolia
Challenger said:
-Arab and -Adjam were and are suffixes that define those who speak Arabic and those who don't. In the Conquest period the Adjami were initially all non-Arabs, but gradually the word became synonymous with Persians, for example “Sajjad al Ajami” = “Persian Carpet”. Originaly a perjorative term, it eventually became a simple term to define a geographical area or an ethic group (in this case Persia/Persians). So Iraq-i-Adjam would cover all those areas of Iraq where the people's first language is not Arabic.
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It is interesting to add, As far as I know Persian use this word for Turkic people in their border.
 
Satuf

Satuf

Joined Nov 2009
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Are Hebrews, Assyrians, and Syriacs/Arameans considered Ajam?
 
Efendi

Efendi

Joined Jul 2009
12,444 Posts | 21+
Anatolia
If Ajam means non Arab, any body except for Arabs are Ajam,

Turks, British, Eskimos, Chinesse........
 
H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
18 Posts | 0+
Switzerland
Satuf said:
Are Hebrews, Assyrians, and Syriacs/Arameans considered Ajam?
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I gess they were. The notion of 'ajami is close to that of barbarian in ancient Greek, meaning someone who does't know how to speek [Arabic; Greek]. But the word came to be used almost exclusively to designate Persians, and it lost some of its pejorative connotation.
 
Efendi

Efendi

Joined Jul 2009
12,444 Posts | 21+
Anatolia
hassant said:
I gess they were. The notion of 'ajami is close to that of barbarian in ancient Greek, meaning someone who does't know how to speek [Arabic; Greek]. But the word came to be used almost exclusively to designate Persians, and it lost some of its pejorative connotation.
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Nomad arabs calling Byzantines and Persians barbarian, sound a bit strange.
 
Nora

Nora

Joined Jul 2010
8 Posts | 0+
yes .. it is like what members said .


there r many nations in Iraq . arab and kurdistani ans assuri ....


iraqi arabs say adjam for all iraqi not arabs and iranian also !


adjam means : people who dont speak arabic language .

it hsn't any bad meaning . it is just describes people who dont speak

arabic language .
 
Tifrouine

Tifrouine

Joined Jul 2010
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Morocco
hassant said:
The notion of 'ajami is close to that of barbarian in ancient Greek, meaning someone who does't know how to speek [Arabic; Greek]. But the word came to be used almost exclusively to designate Persians, and it lost some of its pejorative connotation.
Click to expand...

Efendi said:
Nomad arabs calling Byzantines and Persians barbarian, sound a bit strange.
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The term Ajam apply to everyone who is not an Arab and to best of my knowledge has never been associated to any pejorative meaning (since the very beginning); also it was not associated only with Persians. Byzantines, Berbers of North Africa, Persians, Abyssinians all were Ajams. Also it is not to be compared with the “Barbarian” of ancient Greek. I say it had no pejorative meaning, because Islam is not a religion for Arabs it is a religion for everybody, so the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was clear about this and said that : “there is no difference between an Arab and an Ajam (not an Arab), only by goodness”.

The Prophet's Hadith in Arabic: (لا فرق بين عربي ولا اعجمي الا بالتقوى)
 
H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
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Switzerland
Maybe the word "ajami" is pejorative only for people already xenophobic, without being in itself a bad word then.

I didn't know Arab Iraqis used the term to qualify non-Arab Iraqis, this is interesting.
 
Efendi

Efendi

Joined Jul 2009
12,444 Posts | 21+
Anatolia
Tifrouine said:
The term Ajam apply to everyone who is not an Arab and to best of my knowledge has never been associated to any pejorative meaning (since the very beginning); also it was not associated only with Persians. Byzantines, Berbers of North Africa, Persians, Abyssinians all were Ajams. Also it is not to be compared with the “Barbarian” of ancient Greek. I say it had no pejorative meaning, because Islam is not a religion for Arabs it is a religion for everybody, so the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was clear about this and said that : “there is no difference between an Arab and an Ajam (not an Arab), only by goodness”.

The Prophet's Hadith in Arabic: (لا فرق بين عربي ولا اعجمي الا بالتقوى)
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Thanks for clarification, but I don't know arabic and arab letters. I don't read hadiths as well :)
 
H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
18 Posts | 0+
Switzerland
Efendi said:
Thanks for clarification, but I don't know arabic and arab letters. I don't read hadiths as well :)
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The hadith quoted by Tifrouine in Arabic is the same he translated as follows : "there is no difference between an Arab and a non-Arab (Ajami) only by goodness". But I would replace "goodness" by "piety" or "fear of God".

It is interpreted as meaning that people should only be be measured by the yardstisk of their piety, as opposed to the language they speak, or, as we would say today, their ethnicity.
 
Tifrouine

Tifrouine

Joined Jul 2010
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Morocco
hassant said:
The hadith quoted by Tifrouine in Arabic is the same he translated as follows : "there is no difference between an Arab and a non-Arab (Ajami) only by goodness". But I would replace "goodness" by "piety" or "fear of God".
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Thanks Hassanat, that is exactly why I included the Arabic version as well, because I found the last word of the Hadith difficult to translate without loosing lots of its meaning.
 
Efendi

Efendi

Joined Jul 2009
12,444 Posts | 21+
Anatolia
hassant said:
The hadith quoted by Tifrouine in Arabic is the same he translated as follows : "there is no difference between an Arab and a non-Arab (Ajami) only by goodness". But I would replace "goodness" by "piety" or "fear of God".

It is interpreted as meaning that people should only be be measured by the yardstisk of their piety, as opposed to the language they speak, or, as we would say today, their ethnicity.
Click to expand...

Yes meaningfull, as a muslim I know Islam is universal religion in the core. West and East belong to Allah.

Hasenat is the name of Kuran program I use may be it is the same name with your nick.
 
H

hassant

Joined Jul 2010
18 Posts | 0+
Switzerland
Efendi said:
Yes meaningfull, as a muslim I know Islam is universal religion in the core. West and East belong to Allah.

Hasenat is the name of Kuran program I use may be it is the same name with your nick.
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Actually Hassan is my first name, "T" being the initial letter of my surname[FONT=&quot] →[/FONT] Hassant!
Besides, I am not a religious person. If I were though, I would use the word "God" instead of "Allah" when speaking/writing in English. You are likely to know that “Allah” is a contraction of al-il[FONT=&quot]ā[/FONT]h, literally “the god”. In the Arabic language there are no capital letters, so saying “the" god is necessary to signify that there are no other gods but God. Arab Christians use it too. But in European languages a capital letter is used with the very same effect in the word “God”, so that many translations of the Koran and many Muslims use “God”, not “Allah”.
In my opinion, using the Arabic name “Allah” in English can make people feel like if you were speaking of the god of a few, not a universal one. So when you say "West and East belong to Allah", it can sound like if you were saying that the entire world rightfully belongs to Muslims, which I would consider an unpleasant statement. I’m sure you were not intending to say that. I just mean to prevent you’re being misinterpreted in the future.
Hassan
 
Efendi

Efendi

Joined Jul 2009
12,444 Posts | 21+
Anatolia
hassant said:
Actually Hassan is my first name, "T" being the initial letter of my surname[FONT=&quot] →[/FONT] Hassant!
Besides, I am not a religious person. If I were though, I would use the word "God" instead of "Allah" when speaking/writing in English. You are likely to know that “Allah” is a contraction of al-il[FONT=&quot]ā[/FONT]h, literally “the god”. In the Arabic language there are no capital letters, so saying “the" god is necessary to signify that there are no other gods but God. Arab Christians use it too. But in European languages a capital letter is used with the very same effect in the word “God”, so that many translations of the Koran and many Muslims use “God”, not “Allah”.
In my opinion, using the Arabic name “Allah” in English can make people feel like if you were speaking of the god of a few, not a universal one. So when you say "West and East belong to Allah", it can sound like if you were saying that the entire world rightfully belongs to Muslims, which I would consider an unpleasant statement. I’m sure you were not intending to say that. I just mean to prevent you’re being misinterpreted in the future.
Hassan
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Allah means The God as far as I know too with my general culture on religion. I am not sticky with names. I used Allah because to imply it is from Islam perspective. West and East belongs to the God/the creator/al ilah.

I wasn't aware about this possible misunderstandings of using the name Allah.

Tolga.
 
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