About the Soul...

wittgenstein · May 28, 2012

Actually, that was not my quote. My position is that ( as endorsed by physics, in particular relativity and its emphasis on spacetime) that height, depth and width are dimensions. Time is the fourth dimension.
That is why I said that if one thinks that there is no time if humanity does not exist, one would also have to say that height, depth and width also do not exist if humanity is not present. I do not take that position. Therefore, I think that if humanity vanished, time would still exist.

Here is something interesting. Tho I don't know if I agree with it yet. I just spotted it now and have not had time to read it. And I must leave for work!

Time - The Fourth Dimension -- Biblical Proof

Piscator · May 28, 2012

This is to Prag. Some people are afraid of that peace. "Maybe it will turn me into a vegetable. I'll be a zombie." It's not true. True happiness makes you alive, makes you thrive. It's the best feeling there is. It's what we were made to feel. It's perfectly natural.

Lucius · May 28, 2012

Time is matter/energy moving through space. If matter/energy were to stop moving through space, that would instantly become the only thing anybody had to worry about.

PragmaticStatistic · May 28, 2012

Piscator said:
This is to Prag. Some people are afraid of that peace. "Maybe it will turn me into a vegetable. I'll be a zombie." It's not true. True happiness makes you alive, makes you thrive. It's the best feeling there is. It's what we were made to feel. It's perfectly natural.

I am very glad that there are people here who believe they actually found peace, and can appreciate it, and thrive because of it. But to claim that it was generated from this mythical, mystical, or symbolic soul, that cannot be proven to exist, sounds more like a religious cult kind of thing than anything based on reality.

However, if calling it a soul works for you, then you are truly blessed because you perceived that blind faith in its existence made it real for you. As for me, and some others here, if we ever achieve it the way you perceive it, we probably would not recognize it for what it is because our personality types, that we were born with, have us fulfilled with this constant questioning. In a way, we are at peace searching for the truth that others won't accept.

Zeno · May 28, 2012

Well said PragStat.

Piscator · May 28, 2012

PragmaticStatistic said:
I am very glad that there are people here who believe they actually found peace, and can appreciate it, and thrive because of it. But to claim that it was generated from this mythical, mystical, or symbolic soul, that cannot be proven to exist, sounds more like a religious cult kind of thing than anything based on reality.

However, if calling it a soul works for you, then you are truly blessed because you perceived that blind faith in its existence made it real for you. As for me, and some others here, if we ever achieve it the way you perceive it, we probably would not recognize it for what it is because our personality types, that we were born with, have us fulfilled with this constant questioning. In a way, we are at peace searching for the truth that others won't accept.

If you are at peace, great. However you get it, enjoy it.

wittgenstein · May 28, 2012

See post 241
If time vanished, height, depth and width would vanish. For example, imagine a block of wood (with the three dimensions of height, depth and width), if it did not exist for even a moment (have extension along the time axis) it would not exist. There would be no height depth or width! Time only makes sense when related to space and space only makes sense when related to time.

dagul · May 28, 2012

wittgenstein said:
Actually, that was not my quote. My position is that ( as endorsed by physics, in particular relativity and its emphasis on spacetime) that height, depth and width are dimensions. Time is the fourth dimension.
That is why I said that if one thinks that there is no time if humanity does not exist, one would also have to say that height, depth and width also do not exist if humanity is not present. I do not take that position. Therefore, I think that if humanity vanished, time would still exist.

That makes an information indestructible because it exists in itself.

... and so with the human soul, myself averring as a believer.

dagul · May 28, 2012

PragmaticStatistic said:
A human wouldn't. But, a flower knows when the sun comes up and when its not. Thus, it has a sense of time, a memory recorded in the form of its size and bloom as a result of its exposure to daily events such as the sun, rain, wind, night and contact with bees.

Lifespans of animals and their remains are a record in time.

Time is recorded in the sediments, rock and ice formations bored out the the ground by scientists. Even without humans to acknowledge the time recorded in this manner, time would still be recorded anyway.

Indeed those information are indestructible and they are there even without the brains of humans.

... thus, even if the humanity shall be destroyed, but their soul shall exist and will be in their respective destiny in accordance with the will of God.

Edit: The believer in me speaks about it.

Crystal Rainbow · May 28, 2012

Oh dear, I have just started to yawn time for bed, this is the time that I do not understand.

dagul · May 28, 2012

Like you, I also don't understand lots of things, and most of it all is the mystery of God, so I deem it right that it is safe to just believe in Him.

PragmaticStatistic · May 29, 2012

So, we have established that there are all forms of being at peace with one's self and the world. But, consider this...

Why would God create personality types that would question his existence, or, question the church authorities, the government authorities, and the corporate authorities here on Earth? Did God, like our founding fathers, need a system of checks and balances and created personalities to keep the faithful in line by having an opposition to keep them honest? When Goldman Sachs' CEO Lloyd Blankfein said he is doing God's work, God sends him a reality check in the form of personalities that would challenge his statement?

dagul · May 29, 2012

It's called respect to freewill.

PragmaticStatistic · May 29, 2012

dagul said:
It's called respect to freewill.

I won't deny that freewill may be a part of it. However, I see it as being born right-handed, or having curly hair. To a certain extent you can modify the behavior under freewill, but you will never replace it. As a result there is a certain fate, destiny, instinct, or God-ordained characteristic involved in human personalities. I was successful art director and marketing manager, not because I was well trained, but because it was instinctive. All the training in the world cannot replace that which is instinctive.

lali · May 30, 2012

Crystal Rainbow said:
I have heard about those books I will look up links, thank you

Bahadir · May 30, 2012

According to Quranist theology, there is not any concept of soul related to human but rather concept of nafs instead...

Crystal Rainbow · May 30, 2012

Hi lali, I will find out more about that book

dagul · May 30, 2012

PragmaticStatistic said:
I won't deny that freewill may be a part of it. However, I see it as being born right-handed, or having curly hair. To a certain extent you can modify the behavior under freewill, but you will never replace it. As a result there is a certain fate, destiny, instinct, or God-ordained characteristic involved in human personalities. I was successful art director and marketing manager, not because I was well trained, but because it was instinctive. All the training in the world cannot replace that which is instinctive.

The choice is because of the freewill, and the ability is due to the talent, which is caused by genetics that God created, hence the will of the Lord, which had been harnessed by mankind by way of procreation, thus, the destinity is both the manifestation of the will of God, and the exercise of freewill by humans.

PragmaticStatistic · May 30, 2012

dagul said:
The choice is because of the freewill, and the ability is due to the talent, which is caused by genetics that God created, hence the will of the Lord, which had been harnessed by mankind by way of procreation, thus, the destinity is both the manifestation of the will of God, and the exercise of freewill by humans.

I will accept that worded a bit differently.

Try this:

Our destiny is the application of talent and abilities originating from our parental genetics, determined by God, with the influence of time and events, and the good sense, freewill, and wisdom to choose to use them where appropriate.

dagul · May 30, 2012

The human genetics, was only determined by God, during the act of creation, but subsequently, the human intervention over them is undeniably a fact, since, having ... with another person is a choice, and so the mixing of genetic traits is somehow, a choice by the man and the woman who shall have ..., by random reasons, and the child out of that is the result of predetermined gentic formation that God made, and the choice of the people who did the act of procreation resulting unto the fertilization of the eggcell by the sperm, which become another unique human being.

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