Joined Nov 2010
7,886 Posts | 3+
Border of GA and AL
Why should they? Spanish/British control of Gibraltar limited any chance of colonising the New World. Also a lot of Italian explorers, such as Cristobal Colon and Vasco de Gama, worked for Spain or Portugal or France or England because the Italian city-states and countries didn't pay enough or believed they would fail. Also the most powerful Italian city, Venice, was involved in numerous wars against the Ottomans.
Joined Sep 2010
3,748 Posts | 27+
USA
Last edited:
The Venetians were a very powerful maritime empire that dotted the whole Dalmatian coast from the city of Venice to Crete, until the mid 16th century. Not only did they colonize these lands, but controlled the trade routes that contributed to the wealth and prosperity of their neighbors, both to the west and to the northeast. They were making plenty of ducats and had no serious labor shortage or lack of natural resources.
Milan may have entered the New World fray, but was conquered by France in between 1501 and 1522 and would not be part of political Italy again until the 1850s.
The only independent Italian monarchy - Naples - was battered and dismantled after the first Italian Wars and was a subject of Spain during the most active years of the discovery and conquest of the New World.
The Age of Discovery shows the dangerous divisiveness of Italian politics in full frontal. That brings us to the real issue. Italy may have been a geographical entity, but it was leagues and leagues away from being a political one. Italy was quite simply not yet Italy. It was Veneto (ruled by Venice) Lombardy (subject to France), Romagna (small city-states), the Holy See (ruled by the pope) and Naples (subject finally to Spain after the Treaty of Cateau-Cambresis. It was many Italies.
Joined Aug 2009
5,747 Posts | 10+
Belgium
Why would they? They were stinkingly rich in Italy. By the time the wealth of the new world became apparent there wasn't much to gain. Even till late in the 17th century the Venetian ambassadors did not care to report to the Senate the affairs of the English in the Americas. You know why? Cause they didn't care about the obscure dealings of a bunch of heretics in a land where the simple act of being alone was contrary to good taste and manners to which the pompous Italians were accustomed to.
Partly this may arise from a wrong assumption: namely that because of the Atlantic trade the Italian cities somehow became poorer? This is just wrong and even in the 16th century there was a minor revival of the trade in the Mediteranean (in relation to the south German silvermines and the creation of a safe economic sphere under Habsburg and Charles V). What happened is a comparative change but in absolute figures the Italian cities remained very wealhty, why would they venture across the seas?
On another note:
Genoa did play a pioneering role in the colonisation and exploitation of islands of the African coast and in creating the system of exploitation through plantations (worked by slaves) that would later be integrally transplanted by the Iberian monarchies to the New World.
Joined Aug 2010
10,440 Posts | 17+
Wales
Why should they. For over 700 years they had been focusing on Mediterranean and Middle Eatern trade as the source of their income, the source of their wealth, the reason for their copmpetitiveness. It was to the East they looked. A change looking out to the Atlantic and beyond would be a significant paradigmatic shift.
Joined Oct 2009
23,286 Posts | 99+
Maryland
The Venetians were a very powerful maritime empire that dotted the whole Dalmatian coast from the city of Venice to Crete, until the mid 16th century. Not only did they colonize these lands, but controlled the trade routes that contributed to the wealth and prosperity of their neighbors, both to the west and to the northeast. They were making plenty of ducats and had no serious labor shortage or lack of natural resources.
Milan may have entered the New World fray, but was conquered by France in between 1501 and 1522 and would not be part of political Italy again until the 1850s.
The only independent Italian monarchy - Naples - was battered and dismantled after the first Italian Wars and was a subject of Spain during the most active years of the discovery and conquest of the New World.
The Age of Discovery shows the dangerous divisiveness of Italian politics in full frontal. That brings us to the real issue. Italy may have been a geographical entity, but it was leagues and leagues away from being a political one. Italy was quite simply not yet Italy. It was Veneto (ruled by Venice) Lombardy (subject to France), Romagna (small city-states), the Holy See (ruled by the pope) and Naples (subject finally to Spain after the Treaty of Cateau-Cambresis. It was many Italies.
Star of Genoa,
I wish that you would post more. Those of your posts that I have read were very interesting and highly informative. Well done!
Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
And you forgot perhaps most famous explorers of all times: Christopher Columbus, born in Genoa
Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
Age of discovery was fuelled by desire to find other way to Asia then one running through Near East and Mediterranean. Italians, especially Venetians had every reason not to discover such a route as they were controlling Western part of the old one. It would have ruined their own trade monopoly and source of wealth. As it later did.
Joined Aug 2009
5,747 Posts | 10+
Belgium
And you forgot perhaps most famous explorers of all times: Christopher Columbus, born in Genoa
He's right there
Colon = Columbus.
Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
Is it his Spanish name? Newer came across it in literature. My apology to Qymaen.He's right there
Joined Sep 2010
3,748 Posts | 27+
USA
Star of Genoa,
I wish that you would post more. Those of your posts that I have read were very interesting and highly informative. Well done!
Why, thank you. Ditto my friend.
When I think of something very smart to post, I will!
Anyone who is interested in the Italian Renaissance is very welcome over at the Italian Renaissance Social Group started by Labenius.
Joined Sep 2010
3,748 Posts | 27+
USA
Florentines were the kings of trade and banking. I read everywhere about the 1420-1480 period being the apex of their domination of the very lucrative European wool trade. Their contacts in the Low Countries became equally rich (the Fuggers) on their end of the trade, funding, and speculation deals.
Cosimo de Medici was reckoned the richest man in Europe during his long lifetime. His wealth was made primarily in banking - being the official bankers of the Popes until Sixtus IV (switched to another Florentine banking house - Pazzi). Florence's other wonderful export was the Renaissance itself...the Great Florentine Masters.
Joined Dec 2010
6,617 Posts | 10+
The Netherlands
i mean what was the reason for florence to not go discovering?
and what was the reason for their eventual downfall?
Joined Nov 2010
7,886 Posts | 3+
Border of GA and AL
And you forgot perhaps most famous explorers of all times: Christopher Columbus, born in Genoa
Isn't Cristobol Colon, Christopher Colombus?
Joined Aug 2009
5,747 Posts | 10+
Belgium
Already been over that on page 1: no incentive. As for their downfall, that's also quite easy: the proces of state-formation that sped up since the Late Medieval Period. The Early Modern Period is amongst others marked by the relatively spectacular growth of the state and thus meaning the power of the king, in the long run what could city-states like Florence hope to achieve against the full might of France, Spain or Austria? It happened all over Europe just think of the Netherlands and their troubles with the Austrians and Burgundians or the Hanseatic city of Lübeck and Denmark.
Joined Dec 2010
2,331 Posts | 11+
Joined Aug 2009
5,747 Posts | 10+
Belgium
But he neither went colonising nor did he trade over the seas (meaning around Africa), he traveled over land - and is said to be a fraud as well
Joined Dec 2010
2,331 Posts | 11+
But he neither went colonising nor did he trade over the seas (meaning around Africa), he traveled over land - and is said to be a fraud as well
oops, missed the "over sea" bit.
Joined Sep 2010
3,748 Posts | 27+
USA
Absolutely. Yet before the end of the Renaissance, lasting almost up until the decline around 1770 (when the duchy merged with the Austrian Empire), Florence had another relative golden age under the cadet Medici - this time an imperially invested grand duke by the name of Cosimo I de Medici. His rule was supported by Spain, he married a Spanish grandee (Eleanor of Toledo), and fought on behalf of Philip II in some major conflicts in the 1550s (Pisa?).
This grand duchy of Tuscany included all of modern Tuscany and Pisa, Lucca, and other rich and powerful cities, such as Siena. Their wealth exceeded most other Italian principalities, and as Gaius Valerius points out, Florence had no real reason for opening up trade over the Atlantic. They had plenty of gold, no need for slaves, and no religious mandate to convert aborgines.
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