Battle of the Alamo's Historiography

Pima · Jun 1, 2021

Hello there ! ^^
Today I heard about the Battle of the Alamo.
I would love to learn more about this topic.
Do you know any primary sources ? Even secondary and tertiary sources are good.
I need to learn more about this.
It seems that this battle was mythologized (songs and films)

I found a List of Alamo defenders
If you want you may share your opinion about the topic !!!

thanks for your time !

Chlodio · Jun 1, 2021

http://www.sonsofdewittcolony.org//adp/archives/delapena/lind_crisp/lind.html

follow the link at the bottom for an opposing view.

Pima · Jun 1, 2021

Chlodio said:
http://www.sonsofdewittcolony.org//adp/archives/delapena/lind_crisp/lind.html

follow the link at the bottom for an opposing view.

Thanks !!!

Zip · Jun 1, 2021

I used to own many books on the Alamo and there's a book available that puts all the primary sources in one volume, damned if I remember the name though.

Blood of Noble Men is very good with many illustrations showing the layout of the town and the Alamo and the progress of the siege. Most of the narrative is quotes from primary sources and explanations of them.

Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle: Huffines, Alan C, Zaboly, Gary S: 9781681790756: Amazon.com: Books

Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle [Huffines, Alan C, Zaboly, Gary S] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle

www.amazon.com

Texian Iliad is the best overall book I read on the Alamo and other military aspects of the Texian rebellion, and I read a lot of them.

Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution: Stephen L. Hardin: 9780292731028: Amazon.com: Books

Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution [Stephen L. Hardin] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution

www.amazon.com

Pima · Jun 1, 2021

Zip said:
I used to own many books on the Alamo and there's a book available that puts all the primary sources in one volume, damned if I remember the name though.

Blood of Noble Men is very good with many illustrations showing the layout of the town and the Alamo and the progress of the siege. Most of the narrative is quotes from primary sources and explanations of them.

Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle: Huffines, Alan C, Zaboly, Gary S: 9781681790756: Amazon.com: Books

Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle [Huffines, Alan C, Zaboly, Gary S] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle

www.amazon.com

Texian Iliad is the best overall book I read on the Alamo and other military aspects of the Texian rebellion, and I read a lot of them.

Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution: Stephen L. Hardin: 9780292731028: Amazon.com: Books

Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution [Stephen L. Hardin] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution

www.amazon.com

Thanks for your time: this is truly awsome !!!

"I used to own many books on the Alamo and there's a book available that puts all the primary sources in one volume, damned if I remember the name though"
Do not worry: I am going to look after it myself.

johnincornwall · Jun 3, 2021

Amazon.co.uk

I have this one - 'The Alamo - a story not suitable for Hollywood' roughly translated.

"La batalla de El Alamo represento para Mexico una victoria sin trascendencia
en la guerra contra los colonos rebeldes que buscaban la independencia de Texas. Para Estados Unidos se trata de la piedra angular que daria un nuevo sentido a su concepto de nacion y al imperio en el que se convertiria.

Que ocurrio realmente?, por que una batalla sin mayor importancia concentra el corazon ..... del imperio norteamericano? Paco Ignacio Taibo II reconstruye minuciosamente los hechos y nos cuenta como se mintio, se engano, se fabricaron heroicidades y se omitieron flaquezas en pos de la leyenda.

El Alamo pretende abrir la puerta del debate sobre un hecho que hasta ahora habia sido una minuscula nota de pie de pagina en una historia que se ha decretado como olvidada en Mexico. Porque lejos de la retorica estadounidense de lucharon para darnos libertad, eso es todo lo que necesitamos saber, es mucho lo que necesitamos saber. Mucho mas."

The Battle of the Alamo represents for Mexico a victory without significance in the war against the rebel colonists who sought independence for Texas. For the US it's a corner stone which gave new meaning to it's concept of nation and to the into which it would convert.

What really happened? Why does a battle without any major importance concentrate the black heart of the US Empire? Paco Ignacio Taibo II minutely reconstructs the events and tells us about the lies, deceptions, fabrications of heroics, whilst weaknesses were omitted in pursuit of the legend.

'El Alamo' intends to open the door of the debate about an event which up until now has been a miniscule footnote in a story which has been decreed as forgotten in Mexico. Because far away from the US rhetoric of fighting to give us liberty and that's all we need to know - there much more that we need to know - Much more.

If I recall from reading it, it unveils a lot of interesting factual stuff, but is probably as biased to Mexico as the US legend is ludicrously ridiculous. The overall result is that the Alamo actually achieved absolutely nothing at all except make money for Hollywood and future tourists. Santa Anna's army did subsequently engage Houston's army at San Jacinto. Houston's army was as poor and ragged as the film makes out. Absolutely no match for Santa Anna and yet with a remarkable incompetence rarely seen in the history of war, Santa Anna managed to get routed in 18 minutes and taken prisoner. Then signing a treaty as a prisoner which paved the way for Texas independence.

Pima · Jun 3, 2021

johnincornwall said:
Amazon.co.uk

I have this one - 'The Alamo - a story not suitable for Hollywood' roughly translated.

"La batalla de El Alamo represento para Mexico una victoria sin trascendencia
en la guerra contra los colonos rebeldes que buscaban la independencia de Texas. Para Estados Unidos se trata de la piedra angular que daria un nuevo sentido a su concepto de nacion y al imperio en el que se convertiria.

Que ocurrio realmente?, por que una batalla sin mayor importancia concentra el corazon ..... del imperio norteamericano? Paco Ignacio Taibo II reconstruye minuciosamente los hechos y nos cuenta como se mintio, se engano, se fabricaron heroicidades y se omitieron flaquezas en pos de la leyenda.

El Alamo pretende abrir la puerta del debate sobre un hecho que hasta ahora habia sido una minuscula nota de pie de pagina en una historia que se ha decretado como olvidada en Mexico. Porque lejos de la retorica estadounidense de lucharon para darnos libertad, eso es todo lo que necesitamos saber, es mucho lo que necesitamos saber. Mucho mas."

The Battle of the Alamo represents for Mexico a victory without significance in the war against the rebel colonists who sought independence for Texas. For the US it's a corner stone which gave new meaning to it's concept of nation and to the into which it would convert.

What really happened? Why does a battle without any major importance concentrate the black heart of the US Empire? Paco Ignacio Taibo II minutely reconstructs the events and tells us about the lies, deceptions, fabrications of heroics, whilst weaknesses were omitted in pursuit of the legend.

'El Alamo' intends to open the door of the debate about an event which up until now has been a miniscule footnote in a story which has been decreed as forgotten in Mexico. Because far away from the US rhetoric of fighting to give us liberty and that's all we need to know - there much more that we need to know - Much more.

If I recall from reading it, it unveils a lot of interesting factual stuff, but is probably as biased to Mexico as the US legend is ludicrously ridiculous. The overall result is that the Alamo actually achieved absolutely nothing at all except make money for Hollywood and future tourists. Santa Anna's army did subsequently engage Houston's army at San Jacinto. Houston's army was as poor and ragged as the film makes out. Absolutely no match for Santa Anna and yet with a remarkable incompetence rarely seen in the history of war, Santa Anna managed to get routed in 18 minutes and taken prisoner. Then signing a treaty as a prisoner which paved the way for Texas independence.

Thank you!!!

Zip · Jun 3, 2021

@johnincornwall
Is the book available only in Mexican?

Pruitt · Jun 4, 2021

There is a beautiful stone slab on Lake Charles, LA that commemorates one of Jacob Ryan's sons who died at the Alamo. Many people moved to Texas to get the bounty of a League of land, if they enrolled for Militia Service. The Ryan family survives in Southwest Louisiana, but the only male Ryans are now Black. My daughter played Softball with Rose Ryan.

Pruitt

johnincornwall · Jun 7, 2021

Zip said:
@johnincornwall
Is the book available only in Mexican?

Spanish I would imagine - probably so, but search the author on Amazon

Pima · Jun 8, 2021

New book:

Forget the Alamo: The Rise and Fall of an American Myth (416 pp., $32, Penguin Press).

Pruitt · Jun 8, 2021

That is a high price for a book on a subject I have read about for years. I wonder what issues it s trying to address? Juan Seguin was probably the wealthiest person there and the new settlers ran him out of Texas.

Pruitt

Pima · Jun 9, 2021

Pruitt said:
That is a high price for a book on a subject I have read about for years. I wonder what issues it s trying to address? Juan Seguin was probably the wealthiest person there and the new settlers ran him out of Texas.

Pruitt

It is quite long ! I wonder the same thing. Who knows ? I have to buy it

Zip · Jun 9, 2021

Pima said:
It is quite long ! I wonder the same thing. Who knows ? I have to buy it

As I've become older I've come to the conclusion that the Texian rebellion was not a war of independence but a war of conquest and the Texians were akin to the Danes who invaded Anglo Saxon England with the intention of taking over. A large number of the Texians who fought the Mexicans were illegal aliens, newcomers to the area and mercenaries and freebooters from the United States hoping to benefit from conquest. Houston as Guthrum.

royal744 · Jun 9, 2021

johnincornwall said:
Amazon.co.uk

I have this one - 'The Alamo - a story not suitable for Hollywood' roughly translated.

"La batalla de El Alamo represento para Mexico una victoria sin trascendencia
en la guerra contra los colonos rebeldes que buscaban la independencia de Texas. Para Estados Unidos se trata de la piedra angular que daria un nuevo sentido a su concepto de nacion y al imperio en el que se convertiria.

Que ocurrio realmente?, por que una batalla sin mayor importancia concentra el corazon ..... del imperio norteamericano? Paco Ignacio Taibo II reconstruye minuciosamente los hechos y nos cuenta como se mintio, se engano, se fabricaron heroicidades y se omitieron flaquezas en pos de la leyenda.

El Alamo pretende abrir la puerta del debate sobre un hecho que hasta ahora habia sido una minuscula nota de pie de pagina en una historia que se ha decretado como olvidada en Mexico. Porque lejos de la retorica estadounidense de lucharon para darnos libertad, eso es todo lo que necesitamos saber, es mucho lo que necesitamos saber. Mucho mas."

The Battle of the Alamo represents for Mexico a victory without significance in the war against the rebel colonists who sought independence for Texas. For the US it's a corner stone which gave new meaning to it's concept of nation and to the into which it would convert.

What really happened? Why does a battle without any major importance concentrate the black heart of the US Empire? Paco Ignacio Taibo II minutely reconstructs the events and tells us about the lies, deceptions, fabrications of heroics, whilst weaknesses were omitted in pursuit of the legend.

'El Alamo' intends to open the door of the debate about an event which up until now has been a miniscule footnote in a story which has been decreed as forgotten in Mexico. Because far away from the US rhetoric of fighting to give us liberty and that's all we need to know - there much more that we need to know - Much more.

If I recall from reading it, it unveils a lot of interesting factual stuff, but is probably as biased to Mexico as the US legend is ludicrously ridiculous. The overall result is that the Alamo actually achieved absolutely nothing at all except make money for Hollywood and future tourists. Santa Anna's army did subsequently engage Houston's army at San Jacinto. Houston's army was as poor and ragged as the film makes out. Absolutely no match for Santa Anna and yet with a remarkable incompetence rarely seen in the history of war, Santa Anna managed to get routed in 18 minutes and taken prisoner. Then signing a treaty as a prisoner which paved the way for Texas independence.

The yellow text is practically illegible.

royal744 · Jun 9, 2021

Honestly, whether or not Crockett died during or after the battle seems utterly inconsequential to me. Dead is dead. It may be interesting in a tangential sort of way as small snippets of “information” that shed a new and possibly spurious light on those events far away in time, really make little or no difference in the final result. As I said, “dead is dead”.

The defenders of the Alamo could have and probably should have quit the Alamo when the going was good, but, expecting reinforcements from Goliad, they did not. Considering the size of Santa Anna’s army, even reinforcements from Goliad wouldn’t have made any difference in the outcome.

I haven’t looked recently at the provenance of all of the Alamo defenders, but II’m thinking that most of them, or at least many of them, were not actually in Texas legally, the frontier being as porous as it was. Most of the actual settlers fled east to General Sam Houston’s rag tag army that was gathering near present day Houston at a place called San Jacinto.This was called “The Runaway Scrape” and it ended - the running - when General Houston’s army attacked Santa Anna at San Jacinto. Good thing, too, because his “army” was definitely getting tired of marching and not fighting.

Santa Anna probably regarded this Texian army as a rabble hardly worthy of his attention except that it was screening a large group of settlers who were desperately trying to put some distance between themselves and the Mexican Army. So Santa Anna and his men were enjoying a siesta (reportedly) when the Texians struck. Not a good move and Santa Anna was captured in the ensuing melee and the rest is history. Oh, and Sam Houston was wounded in tthe foot during the battle.

Santa Anna naturally tried to renege on the “deal” he made with Houston and there were later disputes about wether or not the western border to Texas would be the Nueces River or the Rio Grande. Santa Anna was like the pop-up doll that keeps righting itself after it’s been whacked - he was a survivor.

Texas became an independent country for a few years, but Texas was broke and insolvent.

royal744 · Jun 9, 2021

Zip said:
As I've become older I've come to the conclusion that the Texian rebellion was not a war of independence but a war of conquest and the Texians were akin to the Danes who invaded Anglo Saxon England with the intention of taking over. A large number of the Texians who fought the Mexicans were illegal aliens, newcomers to the area and mercenaries and freebooters from the United States hoping to benefit from conquest. Houston as Guthrum.

The Mexicans had a lot of trouble finding settlers to occupy Texas. Texas was the “bleeding northern frontier” of Mexico. Some settlers from the US were invited in. This was Moses Austin’s colony. Austin was a Mexican citizen but he died before his colony was realized and his son Stephen F (namesake of our state capitol) took over the colony. The thing was, Texas was still occupied by hostile natives, especially the Comanche who were well known to raid all the way down into the interior of Mexico. Some historians have cited the Comanche as the “finest light cavalry in the world”. Maybe so. So not many Mexicans could be enticed to come to a place where life might not last very long.

The Americans who came into Texas to settle had been dealing with hostile native tribes for a long time and accepted the fact that they were going to need to be constantly on the alert. It was the price of entry for so-called “free land”.

Pima · Jun 9, 2021

royal744 said:
Honestly, whether or not Crockett died during or after the battle seems utterly inconsequential to me. Dead is dead. It may be interesting in a tangential sort of way as small snippets of “information” that shed a new and possibly spurious light on those events far away in time, really make little or no difference in the final result. As I said, “dead is dead”.

The defenders of the Alamo could have and probably should have quit the Alamo when the going was good, but, expecting reinforcements from Goliad, they did not. Considering the size of Santa Anna’s army, even reinforcements from Goliad wouldn’t have made any difference in the outcome.

I haven’t looked recently at the provenance of all of the Alamo defenders, but II’m thinking that most of them, or at least many of them, were not actually in Texas legally, the frontier being as porous as it was. Most of the actual settlers fled east to General Sam Houston’s rag tag army that was gathering near present day Houston at a place called San Jacinto.This was called “The Runaway Scrape” and it ended - the running - when General Houston’s army attacked Santa Anna at San Jacinto. Good thing, too, because his “army” was definitely getting tired of marching and not fighting.

Santa Anna probably regarded this Texian army as a rabble hardly worthy of his attention except that it was screening a large group of settlers who were desperately trying to put some distance between themselves and the Mexican Army. So Santa Anna and his men were enjoying a siesta (reportedly) when the Texians struck. Not a good move and Santa Anna was captured in the ensuing melee and the rest is history. Oh, and Sam Houston was wounded in tthe foot during the battle.

Santa Anna naturally tried to renege on the “deal” he made with Houston and there were later disputes about wether or not the western border to Texas would be the Nueces River or the Rio Grande. Santa Anna was like the pop-up doll that keeps righting itself after it’s been whacked - he was a survivor.

Texas became an independent country for a few years, but Texas was broke and insolvent.

Thanks for your time !!!
I totally agree with you: "dead is dead". We now how it ended, right ?
Thank you all guys: we have a (temporary) list !!!

Brands, H. W. (2005). Lone Star Nation: The Epic Story of the Battle for Texas Independence. ‎Anchor.

Burrough, C. T. (2021). Forget the Alamo: The Rise and Fall of an American Myth . Penguin Press.

Davis, W. C. (2000). Three Roads to the Alamo: The Lives and Fortunes of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis. Perennial.

Donovan, J. (2013). The Blood of Heroes: The 13-Day Struggle for the Alamo - and the Sacrifice That Forged a Nation. Back Bay.

Hardin, S. L. (1996). Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution. University of Texas Press.

Huffines, A. C. (2016). Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle. Eakin Press.

Kilmeade, B. (2019). Sam Houston and the Alamo Avengers: The Texas Victory That Changed American History. Sentinel.

Lord, W. (2012). A Time to Stand: The Epic of the Alamo. Open Road Media.

Winders, R. B. (2004). Sacrificed at the Alamo: Tragedy and Triumph in the Texas Revolution. State House Pr .

Zip · Jun 9, 2021

royal744 said:
The Mexicans had a lot of trouble finding settlers to occupy Texas. Texas was the “bleeding northern frontier” of Mexico. Some settlers from the US were invited in. This was Moses Austin’s colony. Austin was a Mexican citizen but he died before his colony was realized and his son Stephen F (namesake of our state capitol) took over the colony. The thing was, Texas was still occupied by hostile natives, especially the Comanche who were well known to raid all the way down into the interior of Mexico. Some historians have cited the Comanche as the “finest light cavalry in the world”. Maybe so. So not many Mexicans could be enticed to come to a place where life might not last very long.

The Americans who came into Texas to settle had been dealing with hostile native tribes for a long time and accepted the fact that they were going to need to be constantly on the alert. It was the price of entry for so-called “free land”.

I think the areas of east Texas heavily settled by the legal Americans weren't threatened by the Plains tribes. No doubt though that Spain and Mexico had trouble settling Texas.

I put the earlier, legal settlers in a different category than those who came later, especially from those who settled illegally and the freebooters and filibusters who came in 35 and 36 whom I put in a category with the Great Heathen Army of 865.

Regards

Pima · Jun 10, 2021

Hello guys: I did my homework (thanks INTERNET) and this is my list:

LIST:

PS: the "BOLD" ones are the primary sources

Bill, G., & Edwin, M. E. (1990). Alamo Defenders - A Genealogy: The People and Their Words . Eakin Press.

Brands, H. W. (2005). Lone Star Nation: The Epic Story of the Battle for Texas Independence. ‎Anchor.

Bryan, B., Chris, T., & Jason, S. (2021). Forget the Alamo: The Rise and Fall of an American Myth. Penguin Press.

Crisp, J. E. (2004). Sleuthing the Alamo: Davy Crockett's Last Stand and Other Mysteries of the Texas Revolution. Oxford University Press.

Dan, K., & Crisp, J. E. (2010). How Did Davy Die? And Why Do We Care So Much? Texas A&M University Press.

Davis, W. C. (2000). Three Roads to the Alamo: The Lives and Fortunes of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis. Perennial.

Dimmick, G. J. (2011, April). A Newly Uncovered Alamo Account: By Pedro Ampudia, Commanding General of the Mexican Army over Texas Artillery. The Southwestern Historical Quarterly, 114(4), 378-386. Tratto il giorno June 10, 2021 da A Newly Uncovered Alamo Account: By Pedro Ampudia, Commanding General of the Mexican Army over Texas Artillery on JSTOR

Donovan, J. (2013). The Blood of Heroes: The 13-Day Struggle for the Alamo - and the Sacrifice That Forged a Nation. Back Bay.

Flores, R. R. (2002). Remembering the Alamo: Memory, Modernity, and the Master Symbol. University of Texas Press.

Graham, D. (1985, July). Remembering the Alamo: The Story of the Texas Revolution in Popular Culture. The Southwestern Historical Quarterly, 89(1), p. 35-66. Tratto il giorno June 10, 2021 da Remembering the Alamo: The Story of the Texas Revolution in Popular Culture on JSTOR

Groneman, B. (2017). Eyewitness to the Alamo. Lone Star Books .

Hansen, T. (2003). The Alamo Reader: a study in History. Stackpole Books.

Hardin, S. L. (1996). Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution. University of Texas Press.

Huffines, A. C. (2016). Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle. Eakin Press.

Kilmeade, B. (2019). Sam Houston and the Alamo Avengers: The Texas Victory That Changed American History. Sentinel.

Lord, W. (2012). A Time to Stand: The Epic of the Alamo. Open Road Media.

Matovina, T. M. (1995). The Alamo remembered: Tejano accounts and perspectives. University of Texas Press.

Williams, A. (1933, June). A Critical Study of the Siege of the Alamo and of the Personnel of Its Defenders: Chapter II. Santa Anna's Invasion of Texas, and His Investment and Final Assault of the Alamo . The Southwestern Historical Quarterly , 37(1), p. 1-44. Tratto il giorno June 10, 2021 da A Critical Study of the Siege of the Alamo and of the Personnel of Its Defenders: Chapter II. Santa Anna's Invasion of Texas, and His Investment and Final Assault of the Alamo on JSTOR

Winders, R. B. (2004). Sacrificed at the Alamo: Tragedy and Triumph in the Texas Revolution. State House Pr .

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Battle of the Alamo's Historiography

Pima

Chlodio

Pima

Zip

Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle: Huffines, Alan C, Zaboly, Gary S: 9781681790756: Amazon.com: Books

Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution: Stephen L. Hardin: 9780292731028: Amazon.com: Books

Pima

Blood of Noble Men: The Alamo Siege & Battle: Huffines, Alan C, Zaboly, Gary S: 9781681790756: Amazon.com: Books

Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution: Stephen L. Hardin: 9780292731028: Amazon.com: Books

johnincornwall

Pima

Zip

Pruitt

johnincornwall

Pima

Pruitt

Pima

Zip

royal744

royal744

royal744

Pima

Zip

Pima

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