Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys

tjadams · Apr 10, 2012

okamido said:
... this precariously poor thread will be closed.

I say this whole thread serves no purpose other than to promulgate
an unfounded and biased slander upon one nation & it serves only to
inflame. Lock it and sink it into the Marianas Trench.
This is supposed to be a History board, not a spring board.

kbear · Apr 10, 2012

well i must have been living in a cave for the last 30 years because i had no idea the french were called "cheese eating surrender monkeys"--never heard that term or "freedom fries".
the french saved the US in the revolutionary war so why would any american think they were cowards?? yes, they did surrender quickly to hitler but i think they grossly underestimated him--doesn't make them cowards--just not well informed as they should have been...
and most people like cheese so why is that an insult??

irishcrusader95 · Apr 10, 2012

clement said:
The prussians were destroyed in two weeks in 1806 by an army that had no panzerdivision, yet no one would ever think of saying that the Germans (let alone the Prussians) are surrendering-monkeys. Oh and the Dutch eat cheese (and surrendered earlier than France in 1940) as well.

yet they didn't have internet or mass media back then, watch any video on youtube that is remotely to do with the french military and you'll see comments such as "there rifles come with a while flag in the butt stock" or "how many french soldiers does it take to defend paris, none because no one has ever tried"

the point being that its a fad and news travels fast on the internet so people are more likely to be influenced by it.

wittgenstein · Apr 10, 2012

"Freedom fries" will go down in history as one of the most stupid phrases in all of human history. Its amazing that any one in our ruling elite could say anything so obviously uneducated. Unfortunetly, it works with the sheeple. Damn politics !

McGrunt · Apr 10, 2012

Brunel said:
Now you do: me.

Ok Brunel . One !

Panthera tigris altaica · Apr 10, 2012

irishcrusader95 said:
yet they didn't have internet or mass media back then, watch any video on youtube that is remotely to do with the french military and you'll see comments such as "there rifles come with a while flag in the butt stock" or "how many french soldiers does it take to defend paris, none because no one has ever tried"

the point being that its a fad and news travels fast on the internet so people are more likely to be influenced by it.

Such is the life of a stereotype i guess.

Sokar Rostau · Apr 10, 2012

While Groundskeeper Willy might have originated the phrase, it simply cannot work as comedy without a pre-existing sentiment. As Homer often says, "It's funny 'cause it's true" or, at least, it's believed to be.

Could it be that Poland, despite being defeated in only four weeks, never surrendered while France capitulated after six weeks?

clement · Apr 10, 2012

Could it be that Poland, despite being defeated in only four weeks, never surrendered while France capitulated after six weeks?

You really think Mr Average American knows about this detail ? I don't even know if he would be aware of the defeat of Poland.

Bishop · Apr 10, 2012

The character in "The Simpsons" who the chesse eating quote is ascribed to is Scottish.

However, the Scottish traditionally allied with the French is virtually every fight in history.

But Willie from the Simpsons is probably a bit more of an Anglophile than some Scots.

Patton · Apr 11, 2012

clement said:
You really think Mr Average American knows about this detail ? I don't even know if he would be aware of the defeat of Poland.

Though I feel the anti-French hysteria was ridiculous, this arrogant attitude is why I don't feel it was necessarily wrong.

And though ridiculous, any anti-French sentiment was a drop in the bucket compared to the Anti-American sentiment that existed in both Continental Europe and between our so-called brethren in the English speaking world during the same period, and which still exists not much diminished from 03. Vile and hateful rhetoric was spread about this country, which if said about ethnic minorities in Western Europe, would have landed the person saying it a hefty fine or a prison sentence. Remember how Americans were told to say they were Canadian when traveling abroad back during that time period? And we are the uncivil ones?

Rongo · Apr 11, 2012

Sokar Rostau said:
While Groundskeeper Willy might have originated the phrase, it simply cannot work as comedy without a pre-existing sentiment. As Homer often says, "It's funny 'cause it's true" or, at least, it's believed to be.

Could it be that Poland, despite being defeated in only four weeks, never surrendered while France capitulated after six weeks?

clement said:
You really think Mr Average American knows about this detail ? I don't even know if he would be aware of the defeat of Poland.

We need to remember that public perceptions aren't always based on reality, but often on media portrayals. It is firmly ingrained in the American psyche that the Poles fought German Panzers on horseback with lances. However misguided that impression might be, it promotes an image of tremendous valor and heroism. By contrast, Americans knew that the French were technologically sophisticated, and so they would be expected to hold out much longer. I'll also add that a MAJOR part of the anti-French image, where it exists, comes from the establishment of the Vichy government. And Patton is correct too, in that some of it is a backlash against a perception of anti-American arrogance.

BUT, the most important thing to realize is that The Simpsons is an irreverent cartoon that lampoons everybody. Just because a stereotype exists and can be laughed at, doesn't mean most people believe it.

Panthera tigris altaica · Apr 11, 2012

Rongo said:
BUT, the most important thing to realize is that The Simpsons is an irreverent cartoon that lampoons everybody. Just because a stereotype exists and can be laughed at, doesn't mean most people believe it.

I think there there may be a certain amount of irony at work here. Aren't a lot of foreign perceptions of Americans based on the Simpsons?

Rongo · Apr 11, 2012

Panthera tigris altaica said:
I think there there may be a certain amount of irony at work here. Aren't a lot of foreign perceptions of Americans based on the Simpsons?

Yes, and other media portrayals. But then everyone knows us Amuricans sit in our tree stands with our assault weapons drinking beer and plunking away at anyone who looks French.

Panthera tigris altaica · Apr 11, 2012

Rongo said:
Yes, and other media portrayals. But then everyone knows us Amuricans sit in our tree stands with our assault weapons drinking beer and plunking away at anyone who looks French.

Uh-oh, That reminds me. Has anyone seen John Kerry lately? Last anyone has seen of him, he and D. Cheney were entering the woods together and.. oh dear!

BRIAN GOWER · Apr 11, 2012

According to one book I read (whose title and author escapes me for now) the French lost over 100,000 soldiers in the few short weeks prior to the armistice in June 1940.

Spartacuss · Apr 11, 2012

Panthera tigris altaica said:
Uh-oh, That reminds me. Has anyone seen John Kerry lately? Last anyone has seen of him, he and D. Cheney were entering the woods together and.. oh dear!

I think they went to the John Wayne and Ward Bond school for hunters. They had tuition coupons.

clement · Apr 11, 2012

And Patton is correct too, in that some of it is a backlash against a perception of anti-American arrogance.

So Americans believe it arrogant to refuse to be their vassal ?

By contrast, Americans knew that the French were technologically sophisticated, and so they would be expected to hold out much longer

How much time did Iraq resist in 2003 ? OR Egypt in 1967 ? 6 weeks is nothing exceptional in the modern period considering the technology available, and the small size of the French territory. The Germans advanced at the same pace in the Soviet Union, the difference was that this country was much larger.

RusEvo · Apr 11, 2012

Would the USA army of the time have been defeated by the Nazis as the French were? If so then no need to criticize the French.

Rongo · Apr 11, 2012

clement said:
So Americans believe it arrogant to refuse to be their vassal ?

How much time did Iraq resist in 2003 ? OR Egypt in 1967 ? 6 weeks is nothing exceptional in the modern period considering the technology available, and the small size of the French territory. The Germans advanced at the same pace in the Soviet Union, the difference was that this country was much larger.

I was merely trying to explain where the stereotype comes from for those Americans that subscribe to it, not trying to defend it myself. Regarding the question about refusing to be a vassal, I assume that's a reference to the Iraq War? If so, no, I don't think most Americans thought that was arrogant back then, and I believe most Americans now believe the French were right. But there has been a belief here in some circles that goes back long before the Iraq War that the French look down their noses at Americans. Again, I'm not saying that it's true, because it's certainly not true of the French people I've known, and perhaps it's an exaggeration of the media, but the perception does exist.

clement · Apr 11, 2012

RusEvo said:
Would the USA army of the time have been defeated by the Nazis as the French were? If so then no need to criticize the French.

The US army of 1940, you mean ?

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Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys

tjadams

kbear

irishcrusader95

wittgenstein

McGrunt

Panthera tigris altaica

Sokar Rostau

clement

Bishop

Patton

Rongo

Panthera tigris altaica

Rongo

Panthera tigris altaica

BRIAN GOWER

Spartacuss

clement

RusEvo

Rongo

clement

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