Current Israeli Military vs Current Iranian Military

Ancientgeezer · Jan 27, 2012

AlpinLuke said:
The WOC [Wrong Olmert Campaign], when IDF knew serious troubles against Hezbollah, was due to the wrong evaluation of the real context: Lebanon wasn't on war with Israel, so that bombing cities [hitting civilian targets as it's almost unavoidable in such actions] was a terrible mistake.
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In 2006 the IDF sustained a defeat. They were beaten, pure and simple by 5000 irregular fighters--a fact recognised by the IDF themselves and by an independent court of enquiry. AFTER the event, several generals and politicians put a spin on the whole situation to suggest that "political" objectives affected the outcome.
Well, they would wouldn't they?
The very fact that a shake-up of the IDF resulted shows that there were many real failings.
A casual observer might deduce that the IDF and Israeli society has long been infected by "victory disease". They project their comparative performance of a generation or two generations ago to today: times have changed and so have the weapons and the enemies.
If I was a member of the Chinese PLA high command, I would love to try out my brand new copies of stolen American technology against the downgraded export equivalent.

flaxman · Jan 27, 2012

Zarin said:
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This scenario could not be contained to these two nations. Syria would use this as a "good" excuse to take its' people's attention off internal problems and would attack Israel. The Hezbollah and Palestinians would most likely assist Iran in any way they could. Egypt might join in if there is still social unrest there as well. Not to mention how Afghanistan and Pakistan might respond. Our relations with Pakistan are very troubled right now.
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Syria are in no fit state to get involved in any confrontation with the Israelis. A war with Israel, no matter how short would tip Assad over the edge into the abyss and he already has rebels openly defying him in his heartland of Damascus. The Alawites have big problems and most of the Muslim world consider them heretics. If they were to lose power in Syria there would be a massacre of their sect. That is why they will fight to the death and they have no problem using extreme violence to fend off threats to their hold on power in Syria.

AlpinLuke · Jan 27, 2012

Ancientgeezer said:
In 2006 the IDF sustained a defeat. They were beaten, pure and simple by 5000 irregular fighters--a fact recognised by the IDF themselves and by an independent court of enquiry. AFTER the event, several generals and politicians put a spin on the whole situation to suggest that "political" objectives affected the outcome.
Well, they would wouldn't they?
The very fact that a shake-up of the IDF resulted shows that there were many real failings.
A casual observer might deduce that the IDF and Israeli society has long been infected by "victory disease". They project their comparative performance of a generation or two generations ago to today: times have changed and so have the weapons and the enemies.
If I was a member of the Chinese PLA high command, I would love to try out my brand new copies of stolen American technology against the downgraded export equivalent.

The defeat is out of doubt [despite what politicians can sustain now].

The causes of the defeat, in my questionable opinion, are anyway more on the side of the politicians and the military commands than on the side of the level of Israeli war tech.

Zarin · Jan 27, 2012

flaxman said:
Syria are in no fit state to get involved in any confrontation with the Israelis. A war with Israel, no matter how short would tip Assad over the edge into the abyss and he already has rebels openly defying him in his heartland of Damascus. The Alawites have big problems and most of the Muslim world consider them heretics. If they were to lose power in Syria there would be a massacre of their sect. That is why they will fight to the death and they have no problem using extreme violence to fend off threats to their hold on power in Syria.

In times of social unrest, getting into a war with a hated neighbor has often quieted things down. One has to ask who is hated the most among the Syrians, each other... or the Israelis? Plus, this might be done as a last resort to save the current Syrian regime. Which shows no limit with its' own people. Civil Wars usually come when external threats no longer exist. The politics of this region might change very quickly in the event of a conflict between Israel and Iran. And nobody would be able to accurately predict how it might evolve or go.

Mohammed the Persian · Jan 27, 2012

Lets not forget Hezbollah and Hamas

Oh well, lets play armchair generals again!

Also, who is to say that Arab countries won't interfere ? (If they don't, their governments would be really unpopular

)

The Iranian Armed Forces outnumber those of the Israelis. It would simply depend on air superiority since neither country share a land border (unless the Iranians manage to pass through Iraq and Jordan!

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(Irrelevant to the OP but worth mentioning) But think of the International backlash from this. This would probably be the catalyst for World War 3 !

Rasta · Jan 27, 2012

Without the support of the West, it would only be a matter of time before Israel runs out of steam.

Mohammed the Persian · Jan 27, 2012

Rasta said:
Without the support of the West, it would only be a matter of time before Israel runs out of steam.

If that happens, then the Saudis finally have a reason to hit the Iranians

Zarin · Jan 27, 2012

Never forget that the Iranians did fight Irag to a draw and Iraq was considered to have the world's 4th largest army at the time of the first Gulf War. But, as usual, numbers do not count against better generals, well trained troops and superior equipment.

Belisarius · Jan 27, 2012

Zarin said:
... But, as usual, numbers do not count against better generals, well trained troops and superior equipment.

Erm...Russian Front WW2 anyone?

flaxman · Jan 27, 2012

Belisarius said:
Erm...Russian Front WW2 anyone?

That was probably the cold and inferior equipment on the part of the Germans.

I heard a story that the starving, freezing, encircled Sixth Army had pleaded for warm clothing, ammunition and food to the German High Command. Hitler decided that they needed to be inspired so he sent thousands of his photos of himself and dropped them from planes to the frozen starving troops of the 6th.

RusEvo · Jan 27, 2012

Is that true?

Eumenes · Jan 27, 2012

Why does it matter what the Israeli and Iranian armies can do? Neither can reach other unless the no interference from the OP means that they waltz across Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Jordan. Iran couldn't deploy a force of any size via the sea or air, and the Israelis really aren't much better off.

Ancientgeezer · Jan 27, 2012

flaxman said:
That was probably the cold and inferior equipment on the part of the Germans.

I heard a story that the starving, freezing, encircled Sixth Army had pleaded for warm clothing, ammunition and food to the German High Command. Hitler decided that they needed to be inspired so he sent thousands of his photos of himself and dropped them from planes to the frozen starving troops of the 6th.

One of the best that I heard is that when the troops were down to their last few hundred rounds and were swapping recipes for rat stew, one of the last supply planes into Stalingrad delivered a cargo of gramophone records and condoms!

flaxman · Jan 28, 2012

RusEvo said:
Is that true?

Ancientgeezer said:
One of the best that I heard is that when the troops were down to their last few hundred rounds and were swapping recipes for rat stew, one of the last supply planes into Stalingrad delivered a cargo of gramophone records and condoms!

RusEvo, As far as I know, yes. Hitler's opinion of himself, was rather shall we say inflated!

Ancientgeezer, It would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that these men were going through hell on earth. It amazes me that some people who are up at the very top of the command chain lose touch with reality so quickly.

Belisarius · Jan 28, 2012

flaxman said:
That was probably the cold and inferior equipment on the part of the Germans.

I heard a story that the starving, freezing, encircled Sixth Army had pleaded for warm clothing, ammunition and food to the German High Command. Hitler decided that they needed to be inspired so he sent thousands of his photos of himself and dropped them from planes to the frozen starving troops of the 6th.

It wasn't cold all the time and I'd hardly call the Panther, and Tiger tanks, Ta 152, Me 262's etc. etc. technologically inferior equipment.

Rasta · Jan 28, 2012

Mohammed the Persian said:
If that happens, then the Saudis finally have a reason to hit the Iranians

Yeah, and while it is an interesting speculation, I don't see a time anytime soon where the West would not support Israel.

Belgarion · Jan 28, 2012

While this is a fantasy scenario, assuming that it is real - A short sharp war will see Israel victorious, a long drawn out war of attrition will see an Iranian victory, until Israel with nothing left to lose uses its nuclear weapons, after which no one wins.

flaxman · Jan 28, 2012

Belisarius said:
It wasn't cold all the time and I'd hardly call the Panther, and Tiger tanks, Ta 152, Me 262's etc. etc. technologically inferior equipment.

In the context of fighting a total war on the Eastern Front the Tiger and most of the other German armanents were in most cases woefully inadequate. The Tiger for example was very difficult to repair in the field due to the complexity of its engineering. Panther's and Tiger's were extremely thirsty in terms of fuel which was another design fault. The T34 was exactly the opposite, it was a simple and very basic machine, ideally suited for its time and place.

The Harlech man · Jan 28, 2012

CaptainAwesome said:
Who would win if there was no interference from other countries?

Israel has a better air force it would win.

Zarin · Jan 30, 2012

The Harlech man said:
Israel has a better air force it would win.

Don't under-estimate the Iranians. The Israelis did this once with the Egyptians and almost got their egotistic butts kicked. Plus, a 100 million dollar airplane can be brought down by a far cheaper surface to air missile.
Remember that the Iranianians held off the far superior Iraqies to a standstill, even though Sadam used both his "better" air force and chemical weapons on them.
I would guesstimate that the Isrealis would fare well with American (and their own) technology, but one never knows what the Iranians may have aquired from the Russians, the North Koreans, the Chinese, others or even from themselves. The Iranians are an intelligent people and do have oil resources.
I suspect that the Iranians are very close to aquiring nuclear weapons (possibly in march) and are only forestalling everyone until this occurs. A secret nuclear installation built into a mountain was only just recently discovered.
The US was "sure" the Russians wouldn't have their bomb for 10 years and they aquired it in 3 (thanks to a spy or two). The Iranians also have spies and have been importing enriched nuclear material from Russian sources and quite possibly from North Korea as well. Moreover, the French and the Germans are not above selling their technology to others, either. Nor the Pakistanis.
When the Iranians do aquire nuclear weapons (and they will), the Israelis will be severely threatened by this and could launch a pre-emptive strike at any time. However, the current invitation by the Iranians to have international inspectors around might be merely an attempt to forestall such activity on the part of the Israelis. For all we know, the Iranians may have several other "secret" nuclear installations hidden around. Ones we have yet to locate.
The last thing Israel wants is the blood of international inspectors on its' hands. But they are getting very, very desperate. The next few months are going to be very dangerous.

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Current Israeli Military vs Current Iranian Military

Ancientgeezer

flaxman

AlpinLuke

Zarin

Mohammed the Persian

Rasta

Mohammed the Persian

Zarin

Belisarius

flaxman

RusEvo

Eumenes

Ancientgeezer

flaxman

Belisarius

Rasta

Belgarion

flaxman

The Harlech man

Zarin

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