France has had this reputation since the Second World War and many people think that, historically, France is a country of cowards.
No. France does not deserve to be honored as a nation of cowards who are no good in fighting evil and unjustified wars.
Instead France deserves to be dishonored as a nation of men so brave they would fight well in all of France's wars no matter how evil and unjustified France was in those wars.
Instead France deserves to be dishonored as a nation of men so brave they would fight well in all of France's wars no matter how evil and unjustified France was in those wars.
No as even German soldiers in WWII acknowledged the Free French Army fought well plus the Marquis fought well despite tremendous risk to themselves. French soldiers have fought in countless wars for a long time and still fight to this day. Yes France did surrender to Germany but that was more do to poor leadership vs the quality of their soldiers.
Leftyhunter
When properly equipped and led French forces can definitely draw blood. There was a French fighter sir regiment that served in the Soviet Union and they shot down a number of Luftwaffe aircraft.
The "Normandie-Niemen", French fighters on the Eastern Front | Chemins de mémoire
www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr
Joined Apr 2014
1,814 Posts | 1,132+
Liverpool, England
No again. Cases of soldiers running away were usually associated with poor leadership, and trials for which no training had prepared the men. The French soldiers who fought bravely even under really disheartening conditions were much more numerous.
33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French)
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Leftyhunter
No. WW2 has come to dominate history in popular culture. Because of this France has had 1500 years of military pre eminence overshadowed by six weeks in 1940. Six weeks should not define a people. France were the most over zealous defenders of Versailles despite the national trauma of WW1 that is the furthest thing from cowardice regardless whatever shortcomings that vision might have had. They just lost a war. It happens. If France were actually a nation of cowards they would have a population of several hundred million people because they wouldn't have fought a massive war every generation for hundreds of years.
Now people pretending France won WW2 and was part of the Allies because they had a resistance movement is a seperate issue.
Now people pretending France won WW2 and was part of the Allies because they had a resistance movement is a seperate issue.
Last edited:
Who claimed France won WWII? France was indeed a crucial part of the allied war effort and I already posted a few examples. General Le Clerc led a sizable Free French force that fought after D-Day in France and Germany.
Leclerc: Free France’s Greatest General
The Second French Armoured Division under General Le Clerc inflicted heavy losses on the Whermacht.
Leftyhunter
Joined Nov 2020
2,538 Posts | 2,580+
Canuckistan
I mean, beyond the usual national chauvanism, I doubt any soldier actively discounts anyone capable of pointing a weapon at them.
You probably could make a case that French military leaders, in the years leading up to WW2, lacked imagination and drive. You could make a case that their military organization and tactics were behind the times. You could make a case that their armies were poorly led. You might even be able to make a case that the French were poorly equipped. But I think it would be much harder to make a case that the average French soldier showed any less courage than any other nation.
I think arguing about whether or not France deserved to have a seat at the table in the post-war organization of Europe is a distraction. That was almost certainly done as much to secure western Europe against the Soviets as it was a sop to French national pride.
You probably could make a case that French military leaders, in the years leading up to WW2, lacked imagination and drive. You could make a case that their military organization and tactics were behind the times. You could make a case that their armies were poorly led. You might even be able to make a case that the French were poorly equipped. But I think it would be much harder to make a case that the average French soldier showed any less courage than any other nation.
I think arguing about whether or not France deserved to have a seat at the table in the post-war organization of Europe is a distraction. That was almost certainly done as much to secure western Europe against the Soviets as it was a sop to French national pride.
"A crucial part" is a big overstatement, IMO.
Did they contribute? No doubt, but absent their presence, would it have made any difference in the ultimate outcome? I'm skeptical.
Perhaps our definitions of "crucial" is different?
Agree with most of that.
I don't, however, believe they deserved a seat at the table due to their war contributions.
Joined Aug 2009
11,736 Posts | 5,403+
Athens, Greece
To be honest, I don't know who would think of France as a country of cowards, let alone "many people".
Perhaps those who rejoice is maliciously belittling others in their hour of misfortune? This speaks more about themselves than about French, actually.
How? They have the most wins in military history.
Joined Dec 2015
9,459 Posts | 1,223+
As far as the mind can reach
This perception is mostly based on French collapse during the opening stage of World War II and the Franco-Prussian War in 1871.
Then, most people will not investigate "how it happened".
Joined Dec 2015
6,662 Posts | 1,295+
Buffalo, NY
No…because World War II although the greatest most horrific war in history is still one war in terms of a country‘s history of warfare. Think about the middle ages and all of the great success and glory of France.
How France won the Hundred Years’ War - Medieval History
In just four years (1449-1453) England was ousted from all her French possessions except Calais. This is the story of how France won.
medievalhistory.info
Joined Jun 2014
17,822 Posts | 9,478+
Lisbon, Portugal
Who's "many people" in that regard?
As far as I am aware, that trope of the "cowardly French" is only popular in the North America and Britain.
Many people means many trolls I guess, there are many trolls in the internet woods. Lions led by donkeys, though said about another war & nation (British experience in the great war) it could be applied to the French situation in early WWII. During the blitzkrieg their leadership was a bit inadequate to put it mildly... but eventually thanks to the British and the Americans they won, so all is fine and dandy. The real shame is the collaboration of the enemy, the Vichy regime etc.
Joined Mar 2019
2,175 Posts | 1,701+
seúl
im not sure if we can say france 'won': i feel i'd be more accurate to say it was 'rescued'. being rescued is fine, and we shall bear in mind the brits were also a bit 'rescued', after all.
to say this of course, is not the same as giving any validity to the provocative/trolling animus in the proposition of the topic. france and britain had its victories, as they had their defeats. powers rise and fall (we are not discovering anything wild here) and the time always come when a polity reaches the sunset.
Joined Feb 2024
442 Posts | 132+
Sicambria
France could very well be the most often invaded country on the planet. Yet they remain.
More History Discussions
Trending History Discussions
-
The Great Captains of History - How Many Battles? - Version 7- Started by DiocletianIsBetterThanYou
- Replies: 861
-
-
The Great Captains of History - How Many Battles? - Version 5
- Started by DiocletianIsBetterThanYou
- Replies: 3K
-
The Diversity Of Early African Architecture/Ruins Thread- Started by Kilwa Sultanate
- Replies: 2K
-