Economy of Third Reich was a socialist economy

Joined Jun 2012
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@Sam Nary that i agree. I said it in this way that you can not have free market with monopolies. You can have only monopoly controled market.

But a free market would be free of regulation from the government of any kind. It wouldn't necessarily have to be Socialist in nature. If the government takes some action, it is involved in the economy in some way and thus the market isn't truly "free" because of that involvement. The country's economy may still be "capitalist," but the market wouldn't be "free" because of government involvement. As such without some form of regulation... if the market is left totally free, that opens the door to it being manipulated by business leaders to maximize profits, of which monopolies is one of them. Now, that may mean a form of change in the market once monopolies are formed and dominate the economy... but such a system is still dependent on the market being "free" in order to start that shift.

It's why many of the regulations that have tried to limit what businesses can do have come into play... which technically removes a totally "free" market. And I'd argue that in so doing has actually preserved Capitalism as an economic form, because the worst of its abuses are essentially blocked... And these sorts of things have been done by various parties. Some are American mainstream parties (Democrat and Republican) and in Europe much of this role was filled by the more moderate Socialist Parties... and there are likely a few others as well.

What marks the Nazis and Communists as different is that they are extremists.
 
Joined Sep 2019
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Slovenia
Well to correct free market is not the same as to destroy it. Also in laissez faire model of capitalism market is not free in that sense that you would not need the state at all. State should take care that contracts are kept.
 
Joined Mar 2019
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Kansas
I believe that there is a misinterpretation here. That said though firstly in our world it only makes sense that there are still people who love communism that’s because of the Herioc sacrifices of so many good communist in the world war two era. Simply put a communist is nowhere near the same level of so-called evil as is a so-called Nazi in my opinion.

A Communist today has every right in the world to defend his or her ideology they fought and died for what was right

That being said We’re talking about the economy here not societal values. And I agree that the USSR under Stalin had some social issues there was ugliness. That said we already know that the Soviet union economic policy was inclusive of any groups regardless of their skin color or religion and that my friend is wholly different from the economic policy of the third Reich which totally banned all and any Jews

Here is the thing. Break it all down to the basest level. The vast majority of economic decisions made in the USSR were for the good of the country and the people. Did all those decisions work as hoped. Of course not, only a fool would argue otherwise.

In Germany, virtually every economic decision was made to do one thing. Prepare the nation for war. Not for a war that would come to them. But a war of their own making. A war that could have been avoided multiple times. The reality the Nazi were a racket. No better than Al Capone, only they had a whole nation in their gang. It was a racket purely based on the ability to make war for a profit.

But lets ask the Russians. After all they had a choice. Maintain their ideology or jump ship and join the Nazis.

History tells us the answer to that question
 
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Joined Jun 2012
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- Western imperialists (Anglosaxons as foremost) perceived as enemies of both nazi and bolshevik system

While there was ultimately rivalry between the Nazis and Britain, Hitler's primary enemy was the Soviet Union. He may have had his perceived issues with Jewish bankers in London, but the things he ranted about the most in "Mein Kampf" had more to do with gaining living space in the East and punishing "Judeo-Bolshevism" for their threat to Germany.

Please give me FIVE political differences between bolsheviks and nazis because you proclaim that they were different. I gave you eleven similarities.

Similarities do not necessarily prove two groups are the same. Many of the biggest similarities between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union has more to do with the fact that both pushed for totalitarian control over their respective countries. And since both weren't easily holding massed support when they started... the Bolsheviks had to win a civil war to hold power and the Nazis only got around 33% of the vote in Germany when Hitler became Chancellor... it would be logical that they would then take steps to limit opposition and secure power. These actions then help hold power and are things that turn up time and time again in nearly every autocratic regime through history.

For example, Tsarist Russia would also meet several of the criteria you listed. That does not however make Nicholas II a Socialist.
 
Joined Sep 2019
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MG1962a Russians had no 'free choice' to join Nazis. The plan was to expell, enslave, kill and castrate them.
But before that was clear many indeed saw advancing German army as liberators. Plan was later abandoned because of losing of the war. And some joined Germans again, yet after the first experience that was not very convincing ally.
And to kill milions of your people like Stalin can not be viewed as decisions for the good of the people also.
 
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Joined Oct 2011
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But ... if they were all Socialists ... on both the sides, why did German Nazis consider Russians [generically the Slavs] an inferior people to dominate? Socialism doesn't accept a differentiation on ethnic base.
 
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Sam-Nary you so much underestimate communism and its crimes that it literary hurts. For communists Nikolas II was a rotten liberal, Ohranka for NKVD a crippled bourgeoisie
police. Ivan the Terrible
was weak because of his religious prejudice.
They wanted to be much more horrible than that!
 
Joined Sep 2019
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@Alpin Luke socialism as higher society was according to Hitler not possible to achieve for all races. Jews were like to selfish by nature and Hitler was saying that if only Jews lived in the world they would try to dominate one another and fight with one another. But for Aryans socialism was ok because they were like by nature inclined to work for the benefit of their societies.
 
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Joined Oct 2011
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@Alpin Luke socialism as higher society was according to Hitler not possible to achieve for all races. Jews were like to selfish by nature and Hitler was saying that if only Jews lived in the world they would try to dominate one another and fight with one another. But for Aryans socialism was ok because they were like by nature inclined to work for the benefit of their societies.

So Hitler wasn't Socialist ... Marx was a Jew and Socialism didn't differentiate on ethnic base ...
 
Joined Sep 2019
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Slovenia
Well the debate is going in different directions sometimes.
But we can talk about this facts also elsewhere.
 
Joined Oct 2011
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And to say all, early modern Israel was a Socialist country, more near to USSR than to US. But this is just a note "en passant".
 
Joined Sep 2019
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Slovenia
Alpin Luke do not forget that i never said Hitler was sane.

MG1962a also i should add you did not get that many of those milions killed by Soviet communists were killed because of communist economic ideas not just political. Plus they did not want to separate this two things either.
 
Joined Oct 2011
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Italy, Lago Maggiore
Alpin Luke Hitler was not a Marxist but national socialist. Proud Aryan worker.

That "national" is the point to make clear. Hitler and the NSDAP sustained what they thought, but if you add nationalism to socialism ... that's no more socialism.

Alpin Luke do not forget that i never said Hitler was sane.

A part that you can use the reply function, to make the discussion more fluent, try and avoid multiple answers.

So, what are you suggesting here? That the NSDAP was socialist and Hitler, an insane leader, exaggerated?
 
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Joined Mar 2019
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Alpin Luke do not forget that i never said Hitler was sane.

MG1962a also i should add you did not get that many of those milions killed by Soviet communists were killed because of communist economic ideas not just political. Plus they did not want to separate this two things either.


Then feel free to show which Soviet economic policies were designed specifically to kill people?
 
Joined Jun 2014
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Lisbon, Portugal
It is political attack, for sure, but it is not wholly wrong. You see, socialism requires state control. Totalitarianism is defined by state control. I think you can see where I am going.

Socialism doesn't need to require state control.
 
Joined Mar 2019
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Kansas
That "national" is the point to make clear. Hitler and the NSDAP sustained what they thought, but if you add nationalism to socialism ... that's no more socialism.

Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Is the official name of North Korea. Anyone want to argue it is a democratic country :)
 
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Joined Jun 2012
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Sam-Nary you so much underestimate communism and its crimes that it literary hurts. For communists Nikolas II was a rotten liberal, Ohranka for NKVD a crippled bourgeoisie
police. Ivan the Terrible
was weak because of his religious prejudice.
They wanted to be much more horrible than that!

My point is on the nature of autocracy.

People wish to argue that regime X is "Socialist" because it does A,B, and C.

The problem is that nearly every autocratic regime in history does A, B, and C in order to preserve power. And many monarchies have been open about it. On his coronation, Nicholas II said something along the lines of, "I stand fervently behind the principles of autocracy as did my dead father." And Nicholas did back that up with his own secret police and his own spies. Part of what drove a lot of Lenin's own drives against the Romanovs and the monarchy was that Nicholas had had his brother executed for revolutionary activity. In this the number of victims is irrelevant to the reason for the action. Nicholas's use of autocratic tactics only drove the Bolsheviks on, and when they found that they weren't getting 51% of Russia's support... they rapidly assumed the same autocratic measures that Nicholas took before them. They took it further, yes, but they're still the exact same tactics.

Thus the use of the tactics to maintain and preserve power should not be used as proof of a particular ideology. For if those tactics are the sole indicator of ideology... than ANY authoritarian regime would then fit that ideology, for every authoritarian regime, be it a Republic or Monarchy has used those tactics to varying degrees.
 

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