Ethnicity of the Egyptians

Joined Aug 2006
8,783 Posts | 44+
IA
Huh? I think you're trying too hard to change the subject and focus on secondary irrelevant matters. Do me a favor and spare me your non-sequitars.

Look my friend, he just SAID what "their intentions" were and I have had experience with them that can attest to that. Why is that suddenly so important?

I use wikipedia only to help the simple ones here simply understand and I don't "use" them as evidence, you do, apparently.

I only use them for visual maps, because there are "challenged" people who still cannot fathom nationalist fiction from reality. Nor can they differ conjectural prose vs OBJECTIVE FACTS.

No need to get defensive...I'm just merely stating fact or should I say...the truth? All I'm asking is for is a bit more information backed by scholarship. Any historian would ask the same questions
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
No need to get defensive...I'm just merely stating fact or should I say...the truth? All I'm asking is for is a bit more information backed by scholarship. Any historian would ask the same questions


I understand that but I have given that over and over and over again. When people negate such sources that confirm the obvious, the scholar/historian gets frustrated. That is all. When we employ pseudo-science or nationalistic tainted bias to give our assertions or proclaimations supposed "weight" all that does is lessen the credibility and reveals a poorly developed thought process.





Here, consider this: http://www.focusanthro.org/essays/jackson--03-04.html#becoming

Scholars with numerous essays writing how ancient Egypt was a pluralistic society that very SELDOMLY emphasized on race and ethnicity.

That is why they permitted their foreign rulers and Egypt was an ethnically diverse metropolis and this is reflected all in their art. Time and time again, differing ethnic cultures and groups made up of the population of both ancient and more now, modern-day Egypt or what we call that.

Any one who denies this is removed from the facts and is only spouting nationalistic triviality. Perhaps this was a vain attempt to recapture past glories or to take credit for something they could never otherwise fathom.

Another source that will confirm my point: http://www.egyptvoyager.com/history_dynasties_18to20.htm
 
Joined Aug 2006
8,783 Posts | 44+
IA
I understand that but I have given that over and over and over again. When people negate such sources that confirm the obvious, the scholar/historian gets frustrated. That is all. When we employ pseudo-science or nationalistic tainted bias to give our assertions or proclaimations supposed "weight" all that does is lessen the credibility and reveals a poorly developed thought process.





Here, consider this: http://www.focusanthro.org/essays/jackson--03-04.html#becoming

Scholars with numerous essays writing how ancient Egypt was a pluralistic society that very SELDOMLY emphasized on race and ethnicity.

That is why they permitted their foreign rulers and Egypt was an ethnically diverse metropolis and this is reflected all in their art. Time and time again, differing ethnic cultures and groups made up of the population of both ancient and more now, modern-day Egypt or what we call that.

Any one who denies this is removed from the facts and is only spouting nationalistic triviality. Perhaps this was a vain attempt to recapture past glories or to take credit for something they could never otherwise fathom.

Another source that will confirm my point: http://www.focusanthro.org/essays/jackson--03-04.html#becoming


Excellent...that is exactly what I was looking for. This is definitely a good post. Informative and with good supporting details. The best part...I didn't get a rude comment back.

Yes, I agree with you about bias and the harm it does to the study of history. It's understandable to be frustrated and wary of all sorts of biases. Just don't go overboard on what you are trying to say and do. It only distorts your argument. Providing sources like you did here will do the talking for you. Honestly, I'm impressed with your knowledge on the subject.
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
Excellent...that is exactly what I was looking for. This is definitely a good post. Informative and with good supporting details. The best part...I didn't get a rude comment back.

Yes, I agree with you about bias and the harm it does to the study of history. It's understandable to be frustrated and wary of all sorts of biases. Just don't go overboard on what you are trying to say and do. It only distorts your argument. Providing sources like you did here will do the talking for you. Honestly, I'm impressed with your knowledge on the subject.


Yes, thank you for finally taking the trouble to read it.


You'rewelcome. A lot of what I re-posted there just seems so obvious, if you've been a serious student of History. It's just sometimes the people who actually grasp the subject feel it's so obvious, there shouldn't be any confusion but we forget that certain people are just not up to par yet (like the ones who constantly assert nationalistic bias or any other form of propaganda).


Anyhow, thank you.
 
Joined Aug 2009
35 Posts | 0+
Afrocentrism in a nutshell: The ancient Egyptians were black, Cleopatra was black, the ancient Greeks stole Africa's culture (philosophy, medicine) and claimed it as their own, Africans invented writing, had many architectural achievements, developed electricity and "early planes." They believe that Africa is one homogeneous culture, despite the fact that many cultures exist on the continent, and that all ancient civilizations were either black or stole ideas from blacks.
 
Joined Aug 2009
35 Posts | 0+
Hammer et al. (1997) used seven different methods to compute population trees of world populations, using Y-chromosome data. All seven methods grouped the Egyptians with the non-African populations rather than with the sub-Saharan Africans. Egyptians' genetic profile resembles that of South Europeans more than the other regional groups in the study.

Poloni et al. (1997). Egyptians and a few other African populations (Tunisians, Algerians, and even Ethiopians) showed a stronger Y-chromosome similarity to non-African Mediterraneans than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south of the Sahara.

Bosch et al. (1997), using classical genetic markers, calculated Egyptians to be genetically very close to Mediterranean Asians and Europeans.

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html
 
Joined Aug 2006
8,783 Posts | 44+
IA
You'rewelcome. A lot of what I re-posted there just seems so obvious, if you've been a serious student of History. It's just sometimes the people who actually grasp the subject feel it's so obvious, there shouldn't be any confusion but we forget that certain people are just not up to par yet (like the ones who constantly assert nationalistic bias or any other form of propaganda).

You'll find a large range of people on forums like these...not everyone is a professional. You may have been knowledgeable in the areas in which you have posted, but no one heard you because of the way you acted. Nothing is ever obvious and there are rarely events in history that have obvious explanations. Don't assume what people know...it turns into this:

assume--> It makes an ... out of u and me

From here on out start fresh. If you disagree with someone, come back with a good source and explain your viewpoint. That's the beauty of a discipline like history, people will see the same historical event and interpret that event in many different ways...whether bias is an issue or not.
 
Joined Jan 2008
19,014 Posts | 433+
N/A
Ok you're not reading that carefully, they're not speaking of contemporary times--- they're speaking of how they detect how the current residents want to cling to this delusional past of "grandiosity" to take credit for the pyramids, because arabs recently caught a bad rep. in their eyes. So, they are not explaining or even scratching the surface of the facts, they're just asserting their ramblings about how they want to "distance themselves" from "arab or middle-eastern" to whatever they feel like tickles their fancy.


Again, proof that Egyptians today = not the same as the ancient precursors:

Why is Egypt and the Egyptians TODAY called/identified after this very thing that they "don't want to be seen" as?

Why are they classified and calling themselves after an Arabic title "Masr" not and not "Kemit" which is what their supposed "ancestors" initially labeled it?

Masr= Arabic and Kemit= the original language of the ancient Egyptians, if the "arabs" as they claim are not them etc?


No. They are claiming to be egyptian before arabs. Again, there is no doubt that the native egyptians have been arabized, again I will repeat I do not dispute that,, again. If they want to identify with being egyptian you are not in a position to contradict them. Its their choice to value the heritage of their ancient history.

It's like the english claiming to be english before being germanic. It's not very surprising. If I choose to claim I am from Ireland and not Eire, it doesn't make me english. Another thing is since 1066 the english language is vastly different now than it was then. Does that mean modern english people were displaced 800 years ago?? lol your argument is off.

It doesn't take an expert to figure out your racist anti turk and muslim agenda which is clouding your opinion.
 
Joined Aug 2009
35 Posts | 0+
No. They are claiming to be egyptian before arabs. Again, there is no doubt that the native egyptians have been arabized, again I will repeat I do not dispute that,, again. If they want to identify with being egyptian you are not in a position to contradict them. Its their choice to value the heritage of their ancient history.

It's like the english claiming to be english before being germanic. It's not very surprising. If I choose to claim I am from Ireland and not Eire, it doesn't make me english. Another thing is since 1066 the english language is vastly different now than it was then. Does that mean modern english people were displaced 800 years ago?? lol your argument is off.

It doesn't take an expert to figure out your racist anti turk and muslim agenda which is clouding your opinion.


As soon as I saw his user name I knew that.
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
Afrocentrism in a nutshell: The ancient Egyptians were black, Cleopatra was black, the ancient Greeks stole Africa's culture (philosophy, medicine) and claimed it as their own, Africans invented writing, had many architectural achievements, developed electricity and "early planes." They believe that Africa is one homogeneous culture, despite the fact that many cultures exist on the continent, and that all ancient civilizations were either black or stole ideas from blacks.


Yes, very good, you're looking stuff up now based on facts and less heresay.


*applause*
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
No. They are claiming to be egyptian before arabs. Again, there is no doubt that the native egyptians have been arabized, again I will repeat I do not dispute that,, again. If they want to identify with being egyptian you are not in a position to contradict them. Its their choice to value the heritage of their ancient history.

It's like the english claiming to be english before being germanic. It's not very surprising. If I choose to claim I am from Ireland and not Eire, it doesn't make me english. Another thing is since 1066 the english language is vastly different now than it was then. Does that mean modern english people were displaced 800 years ago?? lol your argument is off.

It doesn't take an expert to figure out your racist anti turk and muslim agenda which is clouding your opinion.

HUH?

This just proves my point again.

Excuse me? Where did I display any racism? Just because I CORRECT your nonsensical rambling about cultures and groups you have no real idea about?

I think what's more obvious is how you're trying to uplift your "turkic muslim" agenda and make excuses to cover up what depravity and ineptitude you and them have displayed.
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
No. They are claiming to be egyptian before arabs. Again, there is no doubt that the native egyptians have been arabized, again I will repeat I do not dispute that,, again. If they want to identify with being egyptian you are not in a position to contradict them. Its their choice to value the heritage of their ancient history.

It's like the english claiming to be english before being germanic. It's not very surprising. If I choose to claim I am from Ireland and not Eire, it doesn't make me english. Another thing is since 1066 the english language is vastly different now than it was then. Does that mean modern english people were displaced 800 years ago?? lol your argument is off.

It doesn't take an expert to figure out your racist anti turk and muslim agenda which is clouding your opinion.

HUH?

If you can learn to make sense here, you just might have something coherent to say.

Right when you're proven wrong, you stoop to insulting and attacking me? Obviously when refuted, you feel the need to get on "daft mode" and spew out insults to make up for your inadequacies.

You know what the funny thing is? Your blatant disregard for actual objective facts and so that is a poorly developed argument, here's why:

1) Eire is synonmous with IRELAND, genius. LOL Do you see what's wrong with that? Those two are SYNONMOUS and therefore NOT comparable to what the topic is. Eire, Bonba, Ireland are all SYNONMS to connotate the SAME land: Ireland. It doesn't matter which synonm you use. Do you see the difference? It's entirely ridiculous to try to equate that to a totally different part of the world (this case egypt)

WHAT DOES THAT have to do with being "English?" LOL

2) What you WANT TO CLAIM TO BE = very different from WHAT THE REALITY IS. If I am Greek (let's say) and I want to be "considered" Japanese, that does NOT change my DNA or actual ethnogenesis and heritage, understand? If that is the case, you essentially saying that the egpytians today are nothing more than poseur wannabes, based on your standards.

3) The English language has not "changed" substantially the way you want to insist on because English comes from Frisian which is a Germanic language. All that occurred during 1066 A.D. was that you now MODIFIED your language to incorporate FRENCH words. Either way, they're from the same repetoire.


You're saying that Arabic and the language of the ancient egpytians is comparably the SAME just because your "friend" WANTS TO BE SEEN that way? That's an asinine and immature mentality.

4) If there's no "despute" then why are you hampering me or any one else for refuting you? Why are you clinging to that very false notion and constantly keep yammering about their "identity?" If there's no doubt, and you just want continue to spew their hogwash (be it turk or muslim or egpytian), then do it else where. This is a History forum, not your myspace venting blog.


"If they want to identify with being egyptian you are not in a position to contradict them. Its their choice to value the heritage of their ancient history."

No, wrong.

CORRECTION: if we're going to be CORRECT we have to speak OBJECTIVELY, not suddenly PAINT their subjective nationalistic agenda as "acceptable" just because THEY WANT TO. It's obvious that you are PROMOTING their falsity. So it all comes down to what you want: do you want to be POLITICALLY CORRECT or ACTUALLY correct? Do you understand that at least?
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
Modern English was MODIFIED in 1066 and onward with French words, e.g. "abeyance" and "repetoire" etc. That's not the same as ENTIRELY SUBSTITUTING an entire language with another i.e. after undergoing Arabization, they SUPPLANTED the language of the ancient egyptians from Hamitic to entirely Arabic.


How do you not see that? Round and round we go in your circular subjective reasoning.
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
I have to respectfully disagree with that line.


LOL!!!! 1000s of records confirm she was a Greek who settled into the new kingdom Hellenism had wrought for her and other conquerors, and yes of course, she's "Black."


He's been doing this all night, it's like he's deliberately overlooking facts just to agitate and stir up commotion to befit his carnal desire for attention-grabbing, as faulty as it is.
 
Joined Aug 2009
35 Posts | 0+
LOL!!!! 1000s of records confirm she was a Greek who settled into the new kingdom Hellenism had wrought for her and other conquerors, and yes of course, she's "Black."


He's been doing this all night, it's like he's deliberately overlooking facts just to agitate and stir up commotion to befit his carnal desire for attention-grabbing, as faulty as it is.

I was quoting an afrocentric actually buddy x)

It wasn't me.


Oracle. Are you trying to tell me that you believe the entire nation of Ancient egypt was Negriod Black? No Libyan? No Palestinian wanderers?

You are denying countless genetic studies on the ancient egyptians?

I really don't understand

http://ww.uniontrib.com/uniontrib/20061221/news_1c21egypt.html
 
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
Joined Aug 2009
133 Posts | 4+
What part of my previous posts did you read? And furthermore, WHAT PART of my statement about:

"ancient Egyptian society was a pluralistic society comprised of a various diverse groups unified under one title" did you not comprehend?
 

Trending History Discussions

Top