Free Trade or Fair Trade?

Which is better: Free Trade or Fair Trade?


  • Total voters
    28
Joined Feb 2011
4,742 Posts | 19+
Los Santos, San Andreas
Last edited:
The matter of free trade vs. fair trade interests me and I want to see how everyone else sees this. Did a quick forum search and came up with nothing so here goes.

Free Trade
"Free trade refers to a general openness to exchange goods and information between and among nations with few-to-no barriers-to-trade."

"Free trade proponents believe that under a system of voluntary exchange, the demands of justice are met. Although free traders hope to alleviate poverty and improve conditions around the world, they prefer measures that are less intrusive than fair traders, who regard the unfettered market as injurious to these same goals.

Free traders argue that in the long run markets will solve - that is, when permitted to come to equilibrium, both rich and poor nations will benefit. In this way, free traders hold that free trade is fair trade."

Fair Trade
"Fair trade refers to exchanges, the terms of which meet the demands of justice."

"Fair trade organizations, such as the Fair Trade Federation and the International Federation for Alternative Trade maintain that fair trade practices alleviate poverty, enhance gender equity, improve working conditions, the environment, and distributive justice."

From: Free Trade Vs. Fair Trade | Global Envision
 
Joined Apr 2010
683 Posts | 1+
Hmm, to me it looks like Free Trade is involved w/out taxes and fair trade is involved with taxes and limit and less benefits?
 
Joined Feb 2011
4,742 Posts | 19+
Los Santos, San Andreas
Hmm, to me it looks like Free Trade is involved w/out taxes and fair trade is involved with taxes and limit and less benefits?

Fair trade ensures everyone is on the same level.
 
Joined Jul 2010
2,249 Posts | 0+
Munich, Capital of the Kingdom of Bavaria
Fair trade ensures everyone is on the same level.
In theory, yes.

Voted free trade. Aside from various problems with free trade processed food (tastes horrible, those companies should hire an actual baker to make bread, not a failed ecology major with a minor in ethics) the problem is who decides what "the same level" is and how is it enforced?

Personally I would prefer it to strengthen unions and government structures in those countries that benefit from fair trade so that they can help themsleves and fight against the big companies themselves.
 
Joined Mar 2011
3,340 Posts | 0+
6th Century Constantinople
Poll should have at least one other option: "both."
 
Joined Mar 2011
3,340 Posts | 0+
6th Century Constantinople
"Both" can be included in "Other". :lol:

Righto then, let's do that. :)

I believe fair trade is the ideal. In practice, fair trade usually occurs between developed nations, but not always between developed nations and developing nations. Free trade hurts developing nations because they cannot compete effectively with developed nations.

So I would say that developed nations should trade with developing nations on the basis of fair trade, and with each other on the basis of free trade.

Unfortunately, even nations which preach free trade do not always practice it. The USA is a classic example; she pays huge subsidies to her inefficient farmers and meat producers in order to protect them against foreign trade, while pushing free trade agreements on other nations and persuading them to give up their own market protections. She even tried to undermine Australia's national healthcare system by demanding that the Australian government scrap our [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_Benefits_Scheme]Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme[/ame] as part of a free trade agreement (fortunately our government refused).

Australian farmers and meat producers are not subsidised, yet still have to compete in the global market against heavily subsidised farmers and meat producers in places like the USA and UK. It is a testament to the high quality of our farming industries that we can still remain profitable despite the odds against us.
 
Joined Feb 2011
4,742 Posts | 19+
Los Santos, San Andreas
Unfortunately, even nations which preach free trade do not always practice it. The USA is a classic example; she pays huge subsidies to her inefficient farmers and meat producers in order to protect them against foreign trade, while pushing free trade agreements on other nations.

Watched Food Inc. have you? :lol:

US mainly subsidizes corn, because corn is used in just about every food product in the market. From syrup to cow feed, all of it has corn or some corn related substance. Theres also a whole bunch of patent laws protecting huge conglomerates.
 
Joined Mar 2011
3,340 Posts | 0+
6th Century Constantinople
Watched Food Inc. have you? :lol:

I watched it earlier this year, but it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

US mainly subsidizes corn, because corn is used in just about every food product in the market. From syrup to cow feed, all of it has corn or some corn related substance.

So what? That's equally true for the rest of the world. There's no excuse for subsidies and anti-competitive protectionism, particularly in a country which preaches free trade.

Theres also a whole bunch of patent laws protecting huge conglomerates.

Yes, but this has no relevance to subsidies.
 
Joined Feb 2011
4,742 Posts | 19+
Los Santos, San Andreas
So what? That's equally true for the rest of the world. There's no excuse for subsidies and anti-competitive protectionism, particularly in a country which preaches free trade.

I agree. But America is the largest corn producer and exporter in the world so of course the government would want to subsidize it in order to make farmers grow it and protect that status. Corn is America's number 1 field crop.


Yes, but this has no relevance to subsidies.

It has the same effect. It gives US corporations an advantage over foreign companies trying to sell say genetically altered seeds in the US. Monsanto monopolizes that and any competition can be sued in court.
 
Joined Jul 2010
2,249 Posts | 0+
Munich, Capital of the Kingdom of Bavaria
US mainly subsidizes corn, because corn is used in just about every food product in the market. From syrup to cow feed, all of it has corn or some corn related substance.

I think you got that upside-down.

Because the US subsidizes corn, it is used in just about every food product in the US market.
 
Joined Apr 2010
591 Posts | 3+
Tennessee
Watched Food Inc. have you? :lol:

Good doc.



I haven't voted yet because I can't decide if I want to vote Free Trade or other. I am completely for Free Trade because I believe it fuels innovation and punishes incompetence. However, I am also for anti-monopoly legislation. Where does that put me?
 
Joined Feb 2011
4,742 Posts | 19+
Los Santos, San Andreas
I think you got that upside-down.

Because the US subsidizes corn, it is used in just about every food product in the US market.

I think you got it upside down. :lol:

Why would America subsidize corn if it can't be used to make anything? Its after we found out corn can be used in the production of other things that we started subsidizing. Otherwise why not subsidize broccoli? :lol:
 
Joined Jul 2010
2,249 Posts | 0+
Munich, Capital of the Kingdom of Bavaria
Last edited:
I think you got it upside down. :lol:

Why would America subsidize corn if it can't be used to make anything? Its after we found out corn can be used in the production of other things that we started subsidizing. Otherwise why not subsidize broccoli? :lol:
I cant say I know the history of american corn subsudies but the story is usually along these lines:

america enters WWII and the people need cheap food for the war efford. corn can do that, its subsudised for human consumption and fed to the poor and the soldiers as well as the allies.
War is over, subsudies still go on because, hey.. theres still poor people.

Ranchers realize that they can actually feed that stuff to animals since its so cheap. That way, the meadows needed to keep a herd of cows is much smaller since you can now feed them corn.
some lobying work to keep the corn subsudies in a way that now include animal feed although that was not intended by the original bill. After all before there where subsudies for corn the idea to feed it to abimals was insane, just look at the price of the stuff. why would you feed mangos to animals. Or feed meat to fish, do you know how expensive that is (or rather...was. nowadays its done because subsudies make everything so cheap)

Chemical industry finds a cheap way to make mono-sacharides (sugar) from poly-sacharides (starch). Expensive sugar can be used less and cheap corn can be used instead. again, some lobbying to ensure that that is also included although the original bill was about having cheap food for the poor. Not making peanut butter with corn.

Chemical companies realize they can make petrol from corn. Again...

And so on, and so on. The fact that corn is subsudized made it possible that its cheaper to make sugar from corn instead of making sugar from cane sugar. And if you include the more and more expansive bill that the bill brings, its not really cheap. First it was to subsudize human food, then human and animal food, then human and animal food and various products of processed food, then all of before and petrol subsudies (indirect) and it will be more and more. Its your tax dollar that buys it and "makes it cheap", although... of course its not cheap but it seems cheap because you get taxed for your food and your petrol and your toothpaste with corn in it.

Perhaps, in the future they will find a way to make bricks from corn, or cement... or extract the iron out of it and make steel from it. As long as corn is so subsudized that its sold for less than it costs to make it, people will come up with new wonderful ways to use it. Other than eating the thing. Which was presumably intended in the original subsudization bill.

why not subsidize broccoli?
If they did that, then now there would be broccoli in every other product instead of corn. Take this threat:

http://www.historum.com/current-events/23666-balance-oil-power-could-shifting-soon-2.html
Edgewater argues that shell oil extraction is too expansive, and technology wont solve the problem. subsudies would. If you choose to subsudize shell oil extraction until its cheaper than regular oil extraction then people will start doing it and see it as a more profitable venture. It really is not, but who cares? theres subsudies. Making gas from corn? Who cares if its profitable... as long as there are subsudies all is well. If the subsudies wouldnt be there... who would care about the theoretical posibility to do it? its not paying so.
 
Joined Apr 2011
1,286 Posts | 0+
Melbourne
Partially, the point of studying history is to learn from the past. Taking a look at an extremely similar situation of the Convention imposing the maximum in 1793, and then the subsequent retraction, is simply an indication, in my opinion. I voted free trade.
 
Joined Feb 2011
4,742 Posts | 19+
Los Santos, San Andreas
I cant say I know the history of american corn subsudies but the story is usually along these lines:

america enters WWII and the people need cheap food for the war efford. corn can do that, its subsudised for human consumption and fed to the poor and the soldiers as well as the allies.
War is over, subsudies still go on because, hey.. theres still poor people.

Ranchers realize that they can actually feed that stuff to animals since its so cheap. That way, the meadows needed to keep a herd of cows is much smaller since you can now feed them corn.
some lobying work to keep the corn subsudies in a way that now include animal feed although that was not intended by the original bill. After all before there where subsudies for corn the idea to feed it to abimals was insane, just look at the price of the stuff. why would you feed mangos to animals. Or feed meat to fish, do you know how expensive that is (or rather...was. nowadays its done because subsudies make everything so cheap)

Chemical industry finds a cheap way to make mono-sacharides (sugar) from poly-sacharides (starch). Expensive sugar can be used less and cheap corn can be used instead. again, some lobbying to ensure that that is also included although the original bill was about having cheap food for the poor. Not making peanut butter with corn.

Chemical companies realize they can make petrol from corn. Again...

And so on, and so on. The fact that corn is subsudized made it possible that its cheaper to make sugar from corn instead of making sugar from cane sugar. And if you include the more and more expansive bill that the bill brings, its not really cheap. First it was to subsudize human food, then human and animal food, then human and animal food and various products of processed food, then all of before and petrol subsudies (indirect) and it will be more and more. Its your tax dollar that buys it and "makes it cheap", although... of course its not cheap but it seems cheap because you get taxed for your food and your petrol and your toothpaste with corn in it.

Perhaps, in the future they will find a way to make bricks from corn, or cement... or extract the iron out of it and make steel from it. As long as corn is so subsudized that its sold for less than it costs to make it, people will come up with new wonderful ways to use it. Other than eating the thing. Which was presumably intended in the original subsudization bill.

America subsidized farmers after the Great Depression to help out the agricultural sector. Large scale corn subsidies didn't begin until the 1990s when corn was used to make ethanol. At least thats what I found.

If they did that, then now there would be broccoli in every other product instead of corn.

The reason broccoli is not subsidized is because its useless in other products. You can't use broccoli to make ethanol or syrup or put it into corn feed.
 

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