Has the Ivy League always been politically and socially liberal?

Joined Jun 2017
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maine
College is becoming a farce driven by status-conscious parents and the number of graduates, with their dubious degrees
I'm afraid that this is a simplistic statement that is at variance with your own OP: there is nothing dubious about a degree from the Ivies.

Nor is there anything dubious- about any of the top-rated IHLs anywhere in the country. These universities have a track record of achievement and have honed some of the finest intellects in fields of medicine, science, government, literature, etc. University research labs have proved of tremendous benefit to the population.

This kind of statement isn't new. Cotton Mather was saying similar things back in post-Puritan Boston. It seems to reflect a philosophy articulated back in 1963 by Richard Hofstader (Anti-Intellectualism in American Life) and has been the dark side of populism dating back to the 19th century.
 
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Joined Feb 2013
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I wouldn't go too far with the broad brush. Columbia is an Ivy League school and that's where the Dunning School of history was invented. I'd hardly call that the epitome of social liberalism. Rather, it comprised a socially and politically conservative intellectual underpinning for Jim Crow and was spoon-fed to generations of students. In fact, one might consider it somewhat reactionary as a primary goal of the ideology appears to have been the promulgation of justification for the removal of black people from civic and political participation.
 
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I'm afraid that this is a simplistic statement that is at variance with your own OP: there is nothing dubious about a degree from the Ivies.

The value of a STEM degree, for example, medicine or engineering, is indisputable. But it's hard. However, there are some advantages of a Liberal Arts degree; prominently discipline and writing skills. An employer will appreciate the graduate's sheer pertinacity; his or her ability to follow through. But the content has become politicized, if not frivolous; the descendants of the Frankfurt School have won. By the way, Yale is considered the most "woke" college among the Ivies.
 
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In an attempt to help broaden perspectives on elite US colleges, I found an interesting article which discusses social stratification in the admittance process to elite Chinese Universities - from The Chinese Journal of Sociology, an article by Xiaogang Wu - Volume 3, 2017: Higher Education, Elite Formation and Social Stratification in Contemporary China: Preliminary Findings from the Beijing College Students Panel Survey. Link below, followed by excerpts.

Higher education, elite formation and social stratification in contemporary China: Preliminary findings from the Beijing College Students Panel Survey (sagepub.com)

Excerpt 1

Furthermore, previous studies have tended to focus on the distinct roles of educational credentials and party membership in elite status attainment and have largely neglected the influence of family background on the acquisition of human capital (college education) and political capital (Party membership). Against this backdrop, college credentials have become a principal pass for entry into the elite group, whereas Party membership serves as a criterion for further distinction and subsequently affects individuals’ career development. In the course of the transition from elite education to mass education, while Chinese higher education has become more differentiated than previously, access to elite college education seems to be more restrictive, and the social diversity of students in these colleges has declined accordingly (Liang et al., 2013; Shavit et al., 2007; Yang, 2006). The role of higher education in promoting social mobility/reproduction in China seems to be undergoing an unprecedented transformation.

Excerpt 2

Compared to the objective standard (scores) in the nationwide college entrance exam, the criteria adopted in independent admission exams tend be vaguer and more subjective. Parents with socioeconomic advantages not only can use their economic resources, social network and cultural capital to help their children get into key-point schools, but also know how to guide their children to participate in various extracurricular activities so as to meet the criteria for independent admission (Bourdieu and Passeron, 1977; Karabel, 2005). On the other hand, children and parents from disadvantaged families may feel confused and be pushed into an even more disadvantaged position. An analysis of the admission process of Peking University revealed that this admission policy reform has reinforced the advantages of upper-class students in access to elite education (Liu et al., 2014)
 
Joined Jul 2009
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In an attempt to help broaden perspectives on elite US colleges, I found an interesting article which discusses social stratification in the admittance process to elite Chinese Universities - from The Chinese Journal of Sociology, an article by Xiaogang Wu - Volume 3, 2017: Higher Education, Elite Formation and Social Stratification in Contemporary China: Preliminary Findings from the Beijing College Students Panel Survey. Link below, followed by excerpts.

Higher education, elite formation and social stratification in contemporary China: Preliminary findings from the Beijing College Students Panel Survey (sagepub.com)

Excerpt 1

Furthermore, previous studies have tended to focus on the distinct roles of educational credentials and party membership in elite status attainment and have largely neglected the influence of family background on the acquisition of human capital (college education) and political capital (Party membership). Against this backdrop, college credentials have become a principal pass for entry into the elite group, whereas Party membership serves as a criterion for further distinction and subsequently affects individuals’ career development. In the course of the transition from elite education to mass education, while Chinese higher education has become more differentiated than previously, access to elite college education seems to be more restrictive, and the social diversity of students in these colleges has declined accordingly (Liang et al., 2013; Shavit et al., 2007; Yang, 2006). The role of higher education in promoting social mobility/reproduction in China seems to be undergoing an unprecedented transformation.

Excerpt 2

Compared to the objective standard (scores) in the nationwide college entrance exam, the criteria adopted in independent admission exams tend be vaguer and more subjective. Parents with socioeconomic advantages not only can use their economic resources, social network and cultural capital to help their children get into key-point schools, but also know how to guide their children to participate in various extracurricular activities so as to meet the criteria for independent admission (Bourdieu and Passeron, 1977; Karabel, 2005). On the other hand, children and parents from disadvantaged families may feel confused and be pushed into an even more disadvantaged position. An analysis of the admission process of Peking University revealed that this admission policy reform has reinforced the advantages of upper-class students in access to elite education (Liu et al., 2014)

So, same old; same old. It's mostly about who you are, and who you know, and how much money ya got. China's elite is becoming just like the West.

Whether Stanford is more liberal than Harvard, the elite reality is no different. Certain people are more likely to get in; to get through, and to get ahead than most others.
 
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maine
So, same old; same old. It's mostly about who you are, and who you know, and how much money ya got. China's elite is becoming just like the West.

Whether Stanford is more liberal than Harvard, the elite reality is no different. Certain people are more likely to get in; to get through, and to get ahead than most others.
This sort of thing also assures certain employment,club memberships, spouses, etc. Politics has little to do with it and, as you way, money has a lot to do with it.

However IHLs (at least) have been trying to do something positive. In this morning's local newspaper (The Morning Sentinel of Waterville, ME) there were some statistics pertaining to one of the more prestigious colleges in our area: Colby College. It stated that the amount of financial aid given to students had increased 80% since 2014. In an attempt to make it possible for potential students from Maine to access Colby without a cost consideration, students with a total family income of $65,000 (median US income) are assured a cost to their families of $0.00; students with a total household income up to $150,00 see contributions capped at $15,00.

The non-educational ramifications of this kind of thing should be obvious ("who you know" expands greatly)--and political leanings one way (or another) are pointless.
 
Joined Oct 2020
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Peabody, MA
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Link to an article from CGTN - Behind the Chinese Obsession With Elite Universities. By Zhou Minxi. July 17, 2019.

It seems that in China what school you get into depends HUGELY on whether or not you are from a major city.

Behind the Chinese obsession with elite universities - CGTN

Excerpt
--------------
Every summer, the biggest winners are those who have outscored the vast majority of their peers to gain admissions into the elite "985" universities, China's equivalent to the Ivy League. The lucky few constitute less than six percent of examinees in major cities and only one percent in some other provinces.

For others, it is not the end of their 985 dream. Among the 10 million or so gaokao takers in 2019, an estimated one million are prepared to extend their high school study for another year and sit the exams again in 2020. "Lay the groundwork in the senior year, go for 985 in the fourth year" is the new slogan for high-schoolers aiming for elite universities.

"Of course I have to repeat. My score is not good enough for first-tier universities. What hope do I have to succeed in life?" said an anonymous student in explaining his decision to resit gaokao on Zhihu, where internet users weighed in on the subject.

------------------------------------
1618686384164.png

Students attend an enrollment event for top-tier universities in Guangzhou, Guangdong Province, June 27, 2019. /VCG Photo
 
Joined Jul 2009
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This sort of thing also assures certain employment, club memberships, spouses, etc. Politics has little to do with it and, as you say, money has a lot to do with it.

However IHLs (at least) have been trying to do something positive....the amount of financial aid given to students had increased 80% since 2014.

IHLs with handsome endowments can manage such things. State universities that depend on legislative appropriations are not well positioned. I went to a state university (decades ago) that was affordable at the time. Now, it has become quite expensive. The state legislature has continuously reduced appropriations for state colleges and the university for decades, resulting in my alma mater becoming a "rich kid" (or a "richer kid") school. Increasing endowment has been a priority because of decreasing public funding, but, unless someone specifies a purpose, scholarships are hard to come by.

So...there has become, and continues to increase, a lot of "luxury student housing." BMWs and Range Rovers and other high end cars are pretty common. A lot of those have out-of-state license plates (those families pay like double tuition). There are foreign students with Jaguars and Ferraris. I drove a Volkswagen Bug.

Well, the point is that money is what an educational experience has become about - going in, and coming out. Politics is what happens in the state legislature when appropriations are involved.

Students from disadvantaged backgrounds who earn one or more degrees from an elite IHL are not going back to the coal mining town or to the family farm, or to their old neighborhood. They expect far more, and they expect to get paid for it. Then - maybe not right away, but eventually - they become part of a meritocracy that starts to think a lot like the state legislature ;) . By that stage, political views become more sensitive to income statements and brokerage accounts.

Most students from elite prep schools are already attuned to money and advantage. Others from different backgrounds, those who enter the IHL meritocracy, become very much like the former....maybe not while at Yale, but they can still join the Yale Club later.
 
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Joined Jun 2017
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maine
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IHLs with handsome endowments can manage such things. State universities that depend on legislative appropriations are not well positioned. I went to a state university (decades ago) that was affordable at the time. Now, it has become quite expensive. The state legislature has continuously reduced appropriations for state colleges and the university for decades, resulting in my alma mater becoming a "rich kid" (or a "richer kid") school. Increasing endowment has been a priority because of decreasing public funding, but, unless someone specifies a purpose, scholarships are hard to come by.

So...there has become, and continues to increase, a lot of "luxury student housing." BMWs and Range Rovers and other high end cars are pretty common. A lot of those have out-of-state license plates (those families pay like double tuition). There are foreign students with Jaguars and Ferraris. I drove a Volkswagen Bug.

Well, the point is that money is what an educational experience has become about - going in, and coming out. Politics is what happens in the state legislature when appropriations are involved.

Students from disadvantaged backgrounds who earn one or more degrees from an elite IHL are not going back to the coal mining town or to the family farm, or to their old neighborhood. They expect far more, and they expect to get paid for it. Then - maybe not right away, but eventually - they become part of a meritocracy that starts to think a lot like the state legislature ;) . By that stage, political views become more sensitive to income statements and brokerage accounts.

Most students from elite prep schools are already attuned to money and advantage. Others from different backgrounds, those who enter the IHL meritocracy, become very much like the former....maybe not while at Yale, but they can still join the Yale Club later.
I'm sorry that you had such a hard time and I'm sorry that you are so bitter. My experience---thankfully--has been quite different. It is human nature to see the world through personal prisms but your sad experience has little to do with the OP or liberalism. And you seem to be using a shot-gun approach and don't seem to be able to articulate the source of your displeasure--state legislatures? Out of state and foreign students? Previously disadvantaged students who don't want to work in coal mines? Private schools? The Yale Club?

All things change and develop over time. Today, statistically, over 60% is the country is receiving financial aid. Having worked with scholarships and foundations, I know that grants and financial aid really aren't difficult to come by. It was your great misfortune that you didn't have anyone to guide you through the process. But this is an entirely different topic and a new thread.
 
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Joined Oct 2020
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From Wikiwand: About the 985 schools/Project 985.

I will point out an obvious difference between The Ivy League and 985 schools - The Ivy League formed as a sports league, the 985 schools were artificially created by an authoritarian, all-powerful government.

Project 985 - Wikiwand

Oh excuse me the real Ivy League is the group of C9 schools. Which, oddly enough, also seem to be in the Northeastern corner of the country.

C9 League - Wikiwand

excerpt

History, and relationship to other categories of elite universities
The Chinese government has four main categories of elite universities. The first and largest of these groups is the Project 211, which was established in 1995 to strengthen research standards in China’s top universities, with universities that exceed a threshold receiving significantly increased funds.[2] As of 2018, 116 higher education institutions were members of the Project 211.[2]
The second, established in 2015, is the Double First Class University Plan to create 42 world class universities by 2050.[22] A third, more selective group is the Project 985, established in 1998. The Chinese government included 39 universities in the Project 985, and capped membership to these 39 in 2011.[2]
The final and most selective group is the C9 League, established by the Chinese central government on May 4, 1998 as part of the Project 985 with the goal of advancing Chinese higher education by formalizing an elite group of universities to foster better students and share resources.[4] Nine universities were selected and allocated funding, and on October 10, 2009, the relationship between these nine universities was formalized into China's C9 League.[23][24]
 
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I'm sorry that you had such a hard time and I'm sorry that you are so bitter. My experience---thankfully--has been quite different. It is human nature to see the world through personal prisms but your sad experience has little to do with the OP or liberalism. And you seem to be using a shot-gun approach and don't seem to be able to articulate the source of your displeasure--state legislatures? Out of state and foreign students? Previously disadvantaged students who don't want to work in coal mines? Private schools? The Yale Club?

All things change and develop over time. Today, statistically, over 60% is the country is receiving financial aid. Having worked with scholarships and foundations, I know that grants and financial aid really aren't difficult to come by. It was your great misfortune that you didn't have anyone to guide you through the process. But this is an entirely different topic and a new thread.

I didn't have a hard time - not sure what you read into that post. I was able to pay the tuition with summer jobs and that worked because it was 1/7 what it is now. The OP was about Ivy League schools, so prep schools and the Yale Club are appropriate.

Things that have occurred are what have occurred, that's all. Very many of the students at my uni, and their families are more well off than we were many years ago. They have to be to afford the tuition now.

I am not going to argue, so let's drop it.
 
Joined Jun 2017
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maine
Which, oddly enough, also seem to be in the Northeastern corner of the country.
Actually half of the Ivies aren't in the northeastern corner. But all are on the east coast which, I suspect, is natural considering the pattern of settlement. Also, the New England states--with their Puritan background--historically have placed a higher premium on education.

Today, however, the picture is different. USNews and World Report (which monitors education in the US) rates states for the quality of their IHLs in order: Washington state, Utah, New Hampshire, Idaho, Nebraska, Virginia, Wisconsin, Massachusetts and Florida.

There are IHLs all over the country that provide educations every bit as good as eastern schools: Beloit, Berkeley, Northwestern, Stanford, etc. Employment offices know these schools. They also know which academic areas of the big name schools aren't especially good--especially in their own corporate field.

In recent years, an over-supply of PhDs coming out of postgraduate education means that even less known schools are able to attract top-rate professors (people to whom the quality of life on a campus--with all that this entails--is more important than a lucrative career in Corporate America. With this development, it is only a matter of time before personnel offices again readjust.
 
Joined Mar 2017
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New England
Or this just a thing after the 60s? And before that the Ivy League as well as prominent American institutions of higher learning like Stanford and UC Berkeley were more conservative or centrist in their politics?

Universities have historically been sources of cultural change or outright revolutions. I don't think you meant to focus on American history, but you are essentially right that in a marxist educational culture began in the 60's in wester higher education. There is a book about this by a major conservative author written in the 1970's, but I can't quite remember its name.

Its important to realize the changes to higher education in the post war United States. Basically, the higher educational system we have began then. Before that, a lot fewer people went to college. College goers would have been wealthy people, and the atmosphere would have been much more about business and industry.
 
Joined Nov 2012
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Is this question more relevant only in the anglosphere part of the west or is this happening in non English speaking west as well? Someone please enlighten
 

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