Internet Forum as Verbal Video Game

[coberst]

Internet Forum as Verbal Video Game

I claim that when we make an Internet discussion into a “debate” we are often trying to derive the same titillation as we receive from a video game. We are transforming the forum into a ‘verbal video game’. This gives us the pleasure similar to that received by playing a video game; but has the detrimental effect of inhibiting learning.

I once took acting lessons and our professor taught us “method acting”, which is founded upon the premise that, as Stella Adler said “We are what we do, not what we say”. This means that when I make the bodily actions of conflict I will feel conflict.

In the ordinary code of “debate” one must develop an anti-thesis in order for there to be a contest. We do this because it is this contest that brings to us the titillation similar to that derived by the video game.

This ant-thesis acts as a means for conflict and thus an inhibiting fashion for our ability to learn.

“One’s experience of doubt is a fully embodied experience of hesitation, withholding of assent, felt bodily tension, and general bodily restriction. Such felt bodily experiences are not merely accomplishments of doubt; rather, they are your doubt…Doubt ....... or stops the harmonious flow of experience that preceded the doubt. You feel the restriction and tension of your diaphragm, your breathing, and perhaps in your gut. The meaning of doubt is precisely this bodily experience of holding back assent and feeling a blockage of the free flow of experience toward new thoughts, feelings, and experiences”

We must learn to entertain a new idea without either accepting it or rejecting it until we have prepared our self to form a considered opinion of the matter.

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
Aristotle

Quotations from “The Meaning of the Body” by Mark Johnson

 

[Pericles]

Good essay. We have worked hard to prevent Historum from becoming the equivalent of a "verbal video game" and I think we have succeeded. I posted something about this a long time ago in another thread which I will repeat here.

I am of the opinion that talk radio and the 24-hour news channels have done a great disservice to the quality of public debate in this country, by insisting that all debates must have entertainment value. Yes, it can be very entertaining to watch two people in a debate going at each other with insults, jokes, and name-calling. We are all to blame by watching and listening to such programs, and giving them high ratings and financial incentive to continue. In this forum, I would like us to do what we can, in our own small way, to reverse this trend of turning every debate into a boxing match for amusement.

I will quote Dr. Adler once more. This is from the book How to Think About the Great Ideas, in the chapter on learning:

The kind of reading [or studying] where our intention is to learn something may, of course, involve some fun. But I don’t want to give learning a false boost by saying, ‘Learning is always fun.’ It isn’t always fun. Sometimes learning is hard work. In fact, it’s quite often that. And in my own experience, it’s usually the case that when the process of learning is itself somewhat painful, the end result tends to be more profitable.

I would say that this also applies to discussion and debate. That is, debate may not always be fun, and it may not always have entertainment value. But it is usually the case that when the process of discussion is serious, perhaps even painful, the end result is more profitable.

 

[mlipo]

I personally find most of Coberst's posts boring and a bit condescending, and I scan them when I read them at all. I think if he added some humor and didn't give the impression that the world will go to .... if we don't listen to him I would be more inclined to care about what he has to say.

I don't need to be entertained but I would prefer to be interested.

Hey-don't the smilies remind you of a video game?

 

[Son of Cathal]

Good essay. We have worked hard to prevent Historum from becoming the equivalent of a "verbal video game" and I think we have succeeded. I posted something about this a long time ago in another thread which I will repeat here.

I am of the opinion that talk radio and the 24-hour news channels have done a great disservice to the quality of public debate in this country, by insisting that all debates must have entertainment value. Yes, it can be very entertaining to watch two people in a debate going at each other with insults, jokes, and name-calling. We are all to blame by watching and listening to such programs, and giving them high ratings and financial incentive to continue. In this forum, I would like us to do what we can, in our own small way, to reverse this trend of turning every debate into a boxing match for amusement.

I will quote Dr. Adler once more. This is from the book How to Think About the Great Ideas, in the chapter on learning:

The kind of reading [or studying] where our intention is to learn something may, of course, involve some fun. But I don’t want to give learning a false boost by saying, ‘Learning is always fun.’ It isn’t always fun. Sometimes learning is hard work. In fact, it’s quite often that. And in my own experience, it’s usually the case that when the process of learning is itself somewhat painful, the end result tends to be more profitable.

I would say that this also applies to discussion and debate. That is, debate may not always be fun, and it may not always have entertainment value. But it is usually the case that when the process of discussion is serious, perhaps even painful, the end result is more profitable.

I agree. I am part of a debating group at my school. Each year we have a student teacher debate. Despite my constant objections, the topics always end up being something pathetic such as teachers should wear uniform and that school should start at 11 o'clock. The only reason these topics are chosen is because the debates have entertainment value. I would much rather debate something serious where knowledge rather than humor decides the winner

 

[hellhound9210]

I agree. I am part of a debating group at my school. Each year we have a student teacher debate. Despite my constant objections, the topics always end up being something pathetic such as teachers should wear uniform and that school should start at 11 o'clock. The only reason these topics are chosen is because the debates have entertainment value. I would much rather debate something serious where knowledge rather than humor decides the winner

Which is why I never joined a debate team because they would talk about idiotic stuff such as that. I'd have to say that I'd rather learn and have it boring to everyone else then to make it "exciting and interesting" to everyone else and seem imbecilic and idiotic to me.

 

[hellhound9210]

I agree. I am part of a debating group at my school. Each year we have a student teacher debate. Despite my constant objections, the topics always end up being something pathetic such as teachers should wear uniform and that school should start at 11 o'clock. The only reason these topics are chosen is because the debates have entertainment value. I would much rather debate something serious where knowledge rather than humor decides the winner

Would you like to start a debate?

I mean I game for it.

 

[coberst]

Good essay. We have worked hard to prevent Historum from becoming the equivalent of a "verbal video game" and I think we have succeeded. I posted something about this a long time ago in another thread which I will repeat here.

I am of the opinion that talk radio and the 24-hour news channels have done a great disservice to the quality of public debate in this country, by insisting that all debates must have entertainment value. Yes, it can be very entertaining to watch two people in a debate going at each other with insults, jokes, and name-calling. We are all to blame by watching and listening to such programs, and giving them high ratings and financial incentive to continue. In this forum, I would like us to do what we can, in our own small way, to reverse this trend of turning every debate into a boxing match for amusement.

I will quote Dr. Adler once more. This is from the book How to Think About the Great Ideas, in the chapter on learning:

The kind of reading [or studying] where our intention is to learn something may, of course, involve some fun. But I don’t want to give learning a false boost by saying, ‘Learning is always fun.’ It isn’t always fun. Sometimes learning is hard work. In fact, it’s quite often that. And in my own experience, it’s usually the case that when the process of learning is itself somewhat painful, the end result tends to be more profitable.

I would say that this also applies to discussion and debate. That is, debate may not always be fun, and it may not always have entertainment value. But it is usually the case that when the process of discussion is serious, perhaps even painful, the end result is more profitable.

Dr Adler was a wise man. I think that he is mainly responsible for the creation of "The Great Books".

 

[Son of Cathal]

Would you like to start a debate?

I mean I game for it.

What on???

 

[Pericles]

Dr Adler was a wise man. I think that he is mainly responsible for the creation of "The Great Books".

Mortimer Adler, John Erskine, and Robert Hutchins were the main influences behind the creation of the Great Books collection. Here is a good article, written by Adler shortly before his death, that explains the criteria used for selecting the Great Books:

http://books.mirror.org/gb.sel1990.html

 

[hellhound9210]

What on???

Your choice