Is Ramses II the Greatest Pharaoh of Egypt?

IMO, he is only "great" for turning an inconclusive battle into a propaganda victory, putting his name on the monuments of others and living for a long time. The only reason he is called great in modern times is that in the 19th Century it was not then fully realized that the many monuments with his name on them had been reused by him, and so it was presumed he was the "great builder". The depiction at Medinet Habu of the victory of Ramesses III over the Sea People shows a real victory, not "fake news". If any pharaoh should be called great, then it should be Thutmosis III. This is not to say that Ramesses II was a "fraud", but that the "great" epithet was a 19th Century error applied to a man who while clearly was a good pharaoh, was also clearly not the "greatest" when compared to others. Khufu also has a far greater claim to being "great", for as impressive as Abu Simbel is, or how beautiful the tomb of Nefertari, they pale beside the Great Pyramid in all aspects.

It seems certain that Ramesses II wanted to be known as the greatest pharaoh. but I don't know if there is even enough information about enough pharaohs to judge who was greatest.

If every pharaoh always wrote the exact truth about his military achievements, and if all their inscriptions survived and were discovered, then we might have an accurate record of Egyptian military history and decide which pharaoh was the greatest general.

But I suspect there are some aspects about being a great ruler that are not easy to describe accurately, or to measure, or to record, and thus the historical record might remain incomplete enough to make judging the greatest pharaoh impossible.

Light said:

I like your answer Corvidius. I didn't know about what you said about the 19th century, and you could make the case that Khufu was more great considering that the Great Pyramid at Giza basically represents Egypt itself.
May I ask why you say Thutmose III should be called great? iirc the Egyptian Empire had the most territory under him. Is that the reason?

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Well I doubt we would even have a discussion as to which pharaoh could be termed "great" if it wasn't for the French deciding that Ramesses II was "great". Very few monarchs or leaders get that epithet, not a single Roman, even though surely Caesar and Augustus, at the least, were deserving.

Thutmosis III is the foremost Egyptian military leader we have a reasonable account of, but he does not get called "great" as his exploits were, in comparison to Alexander, tiny, and arguably less important than Alfred the Great, who proved his worth in the face of adversity. So while I would say he was more deserving than Ramesses II of being called "great", I don't think we have enough information to decide on him or anybody else. Amunhotep III, without a list of battle honours, could also be a contender for "great", the Louis XIV of his day in his opulence and splendour, and the name Sun King is far more applicable to Amunhotep III than Louis XIV. I also think that this epithet is more for the people of the time, or not long after, to bestow, not us thousands of years removed from them. For all we know, Thutmosis III may have been a Hitler, or maybe it was unnamed generals who were responsible for his exploits and their names never mentioned. I doubt either case was the truth, but we don't know, so he, and many others are not "great" even if they would have met our modern day criteria. Personally, I would like to see a Thutmosis the Great and an Amunhotep the Great as it seems perverse that the great kings of the 18th Dynasty get passed over for the man who later usurped their monuments.

The Great Pyramid was a great achievement in it's concept, it's design, it's construction and, as we learn more and more, the logistics that made it possible, yet Khufu is not termed "great". Possibly he really was a hard task master, the Hardrada of his day, maybe he became hated, maybe not. We just don't know. However, I would contend that not just the Great Pyramid, but the Giza complex is so extraordinary that whoever was ultimately responsible at the highest level, and this is Khufu from what we know, is deserving of being "great", but then the Egyptians did more than that, they made these people gods, Imhotep for example, and surely being a god is better than being "great"