Jesus the Messiah

Nick · Nov 29, 2009

What if Jesus chose to fulfil his destiny as the warrior king, rather than the long haired hippie we're familiar with? Which cult would replace Christianity?
In this alternative history Jesus leads an armed revolt in Jerusalem (after riding in on his donkey), wages a lengthy guerrilla war that forces the Romans to withdraw, and is crowned the new King of the Jews. How would this impact on history as we know it?

merged · Nov 29, 2009

I bet in that case Islam would have appeared six centuries earlier.

Snake Eyes · Nov 29, 2009

I suppose you would not have a vast rise in Christendom. People would be turned away from the bloodshed. Maybe, as pinguin said, Islam would have risen before. Hmmm, Vladimir would have chosen Islam instead. This would give Islam more power. Russia and the Mongols may have assimilated more. I reckon the entire world would be different. I don't know, maybe the warrior Christians would have been wiped out by the medieval period so there would be no "crusades." Europe may not be as powerful. Maybe we'd see a reversal with the roles of Islam and Christianity? Idk, its all speculation.

okamido · Nov 29, 2009

The cult of Mithras, which Christianity ursurped, would have spread unabated.

Fire_Fingers · Nov 29, 2009

There would be no Muslims, no little Christs (aka Christians), just happy go lucky Jews who worship the new Messiah.

Also, this "warrior king" was actually not His destiny. He fulfilled His destiny on the Cross.

Fire_Fingers · Nov 29, 2009

The cult of Mithras?

Nick · Nov 29, 2009

Death on the cross was one of many options available for Jesus. He could just as easily have become a revolutionary like Barabbas, a teacher of the law, or simply taken over his father's carpentry business.

crossroadclarence · Nov 29, 2009

Fire_Fingers said:
There would be no Muslims, no little Christs (aka Christians), just happy go lucky Jews who worship the new Messiah.

Also, this "warrior king" was actually not His destiny. He fulfilled His destiny on the Cross.

Correct, IMO. In actually the people attempted to "make Him king" right after His feeding of the 5,000, which he refused:

John 6:15 "When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone."

So, of course this thread is speculative history.

A pretty good treatment of Mithraism is given here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/mom/mom04.htm

Fire_Fingers · Nov 29, 2009

Thanks for the website. It was pretty informative... and you know, I see the similarities.

crossroadclarence · Nov 29, 2009

Of course: my research shows that many Middle Eastern cults aped Hebrew religion. Few realize the power and influence the David/Solomon period had to all regions for hundreds of years.
Polytheists reckoned if they copied the "forms" and some of the core ideas of Judaism, without the nation/racial/ political humiliation of converting, they could have their cake and eat it, too.

But it really is not magic, or a DIY system.

roger_pearse · Nov 30, 2009

crossroadclarence said:
A pretty good treatment of Mithraism is given here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/mom/mom04.htm

This is a reference to a 1903 book -- more than a century old! -- by Franz Cumont.

The work of Franz Cumont was novel in its day, and was published *in French*. An English translation, without most of the references, was published of the bit that didn't contain all the data.

Cumont believed that Roman Mithras was the same as Persian Mitra. This was not unreasonable; but a century of archaeology has shown otherwise. The Roman cult first appears in the historical record ca. AD 80, when Statius refers to it. Archaeology is known from AD 100 or thereabouts.

The current version of the Wikipedia article is not bad, and will give you pointers to up to date scholarship on Mithras.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

vid · Nov 30, 2009

Few realize the power and influence the David/Solomon period had to all regions for hundreds of years.

Are you sure these leaders had any considerable power? Or that they were monotheists? AFAIK archaeological finds from their era make it clear there was simply no center in the area that could govern over any extended area, just small settlements, and Israelites were still very polytheist (Yahweh and his Asherah, all the Baals, El's pantheon, etc.)

vid · Nov 30, 2009

Nick said:
What if Jesus chose to fulfil his destiny as the warrior king, rather than the long haired hippie we're familiar with? Which cult would replace Christianity?
In this alternative history Jesus leads an armed revolt in Jerusalem (after riding in on his donkey), wages a lengthy guerrilla war that forces the Romans to withdraw, and is crowned the new King of the Jews. How would this impact on history as we know it?

Who needs Jesus for that? Bar Kokhba did it, and result is well-known.

Rasta · Nov 30, 2009

If Jesus tried the "warrior king" hat on, the Romans would have crushed Jerusalem.

sturm · Nov 30, 2009

pinguin said:
I bet in that case Islam would have appeared six centuries earlier.

I was just gonna say the same thing

Fire_Fingers · Dec 1, 2009

Oh dear.

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