Julius Caesar and other Roman leaders' ethnicity

Joined Apr 2014
67 Posts | 0+
Canada
Hmm? What do you mean by this?

Landish civilizations definitely won't have the edge of a island-type like Japan. A reason the British had the edge over the French when it came to naval wars.

I was just trying to balance the wording of "lame", which can be seen as pejorative. Mongols still exist and they are well alive.
 
Joined Aug 2013
1,415 Posts | 8+
South Korea
Landish civilizations definitely won't have the edge of a island-type like Japan. A reason the British had the edge over the French when it came to naval wars.

I was just trying to balance the wording of "lame", which can be seen as pejorative. Mongols still exist and they are well alive.

No, I meant that why did you say 'no offense' to me when there is nothing that can be judged as an offense towards me at all.
 
Joined Apr 2014
67 Posts | 0+
Canada
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No, I meant that why did you say 'no offense' to me when there is nothing that can be judged as an offense towards me at all.

Indeed, you are south Korean, right? It's likely my phrasing was not construed because I'm french speaker first. I tend to occasionally express in strange ways. Already, one of this site pointed out my use of the word "decorticate", which is widespread amongst french speakers as "décortiquer", but seems to be obscure in english. Or I say "ephemerous" when people constantly tells me it's "ephemeral" [.........].
:)

EDIT: And now, I sway from the main topic as usual. :(
 
Joined Aug 2013
1,415 Posts | 8+
South Korea
Indeed, you are south Korean, right? It's likely my phrasing was not construed because I'm french speaker first. I tend to occasionally express in strange ways. Already, one of this site pointed out my use of the word "decorticate", which is widespread amongst french speakers as "décortiquer", but seems to be obscure in english. Or I say "ephemerous" when people constantly tells me it's "ephemeral" [.........].
:)

EDIT: And now, I sway from the main topic as usual. :(

Ah,

We shall all speak in Latin!:deadhorse:
 
Joined Jun 2011
459 Posts | 0+
Because, IIRC, the Roman empire couldn't reach farther than the levantine. I think.

In the east, after the Macedonian Seleucids (of Seleucos), the nomadic Arsacids Parthians (of Arsaces the first) took over them for 200 years (up to ~200AD), then followed with the Sassanids persian dynasty. Rome did play games with the Parthians and their ego as the leader proclaimed itself "King of the Kings" like the Achemenids (Persians). Rome treated the Armenian king Tigranes of "King of the Kings", which infuriated Orodes II at its paroxysm. He then invaded Armenia and browbeat Rome. Augustus subsequently adressed to Orodes II by calling his first name or something like that and then renounces to their sovereignty. Petty political games, but the Parthians didn't submit to Rome.

EDIT: Referring now to a map; yep, Rome couldn't submit the Parthians as said. You know, that is not the only failure of the Romans. They couldn't beat the Candaces of Nubia (even Julius feared to lose his face to a woman IIRC to even attempt), they failed the invasion of Felix Arabia (you should know this Muhammad), etc. Rome isn't supes (superman).

2180px-RomanEmpire_117.svg.png

It is beautiful map. Can you recommend me the source where I can get the maps of the roads of Roman Empire? I suspect that Romans had the maps: they could make very good roads.
 
Joined Jan 2014
416 Posts | 9+
Calgary
In your opinion, what civilizations that are more advanced than the Romans? My buddy said Romans are more sophisticated in terms of military organization, law and political administration and the Chinese only faced mainly just barbarian nomads, whereas the Roman Empire was extremely diverse and Roman armies faced strong enemy armies such as those of Parthia and Dacia. Thoughts?


The problem is all of our written records come from Greek or Roman sources, who were completely in belief of their superiority over all others. This has always skewed scholarly work to favor them. As well, no one, except the Egyptians, really came close to the monumental architecture of the Greeks and Romans, so these constant visible reminders also skew our judgement of them. I am a Romanophile, but it very hard to argue they weren't an extremely warlike, viscous people.

To more directly answer your question, I wouldn't use the word more as it is all subjective, however:

Cathage, Greece and the Successor states (The Diadochi) were is many ways just as sophisticated as Rome. Carthage almost defeated Rome in a the second Punic War, but it was Rome's ability to withstand losses that would have caused most nations to sue for peace that allowed them eventual victory. Some may argue the same for the wars with the Teutons and Cimbri.

Greece was past its prime as a military force and was ruled by the Diadochi. When Rome finally came into conflict with the Diadochi they had spent the last 150 years fighting each other. They had become more and more intrenched in their own way of fighting and had become less flexible, but by all hallmarks of civilization were quite equal to Rome.

In terms if technology, the Gauls were regarded as better metallurgists than the Romans, the famous Roman sword, the gladius hispaniensis, was copied from the Celt-Iberian "Barbarians", and not until after she was already by the far the largest empire in the West.

After the defeat of these enemies, all before 90 BC, the remaining threats to Rome were either too fragmented, like the Germanic tribes or , or only regional, like the Parthians/Sassinids or the Caledonians.

As for Dacia, she was rich, fairly advanced, although behind the Romans, particularly in monumental architecture, but to see if Dacia had a chance, look at the two empire on a map.


The Roman Republic's (almost of its conquests were before it became an empire) political structure made it a great conqueror. Because it was an oligarchy, it could have failure, and dispose the leader, while the state remained intact. It's system rewarded leaders who had great military victories and gave them the resources of the state to do so, created a mentality of conquest for the sake of personal glory, using state funds. This and it's ability to suffer tremendous casualties, as well as tactical innovations, allowed it to grow to empire. It just didn't have the massive gap against its enemies that pop culture proliferates until AFTER it had most of its conquests. That advantage, once they had it, would allow it to last 400 years.
 
Joined Jan 2014
11 Posts | 0+
Mecca
Thanks for the responses.

IIRC I read somewhere that Julius Caesar had been outnumbered 1 to 10 in one of his battles. What are your thoughts about this? Do you accept this as an established fact? Is that even possible?

When did the Romance language and the Germanic language began to separated to became different languages? Seeing that both ethnic that speak this language is just the same (They're all Caucasians), are the English people of today and the Romans actually the same but only speaking different language?
 
Joined Aug 2013
4,572 Posts | 30+
Canada, originally Clwyd, N.Wales
Thanks for the responses.

IIRC I read somewhere that Julius Caesar had been outnumbered 1 to 10 in one of his battles. What are your thoughts about this? Do you accept this as an established fact? Is that even possible?

When did the Romance language and the Germanic language began to separated to became different languages? Seeing that both ethnic that speak this language is just the same (They're all Caucasians), are the English people of today and the Romans actually the same but only speaking different language?

I can't speak to the point about him being outnumbered, but I will say that Latin and Germanic languages come from different branches of the Indo-European family group. They didn't split directly from each other, and although Caucasian... the Germanic speaking peoples seem to have migrated in from the east, while the Romans were firmly established in the Italian peninsula.
 
Joined Jun 2016
22 Posts | 0+
NJ
If you are talking about race, yes the typical Roman was Caucasian. I am pretty sure every Emperor was as well. That is every Emperor had facial features that matched those of Europeans and Middle Easterners.

Now not all Roman Emperors came from Rome or even the Italian Peninsula. As mentioned by Ben, Trajan and Hadrian were both from the region that is now known as Spain. Septimius Severus was from North Africa and his son Caracalla, who would later inherit the throne, was half Syrian on his Mother's side. There were some Germanic Emperors at the end of the Western Empire who would have had ancestry from Northern European regions. When the Western Empire fell the majority of Eastern Emperors would have been Greek or from other South Eastern European areas, like Constantine the Great who was born in what is now Serbia.


Lucius Septimius Bassianus was African and black African, not North African. Thats what the internet says...
 
Joined Mar 2012
2,758 Posts | 533+
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Lucius Septimius Bassianus was African and black African, not North African. Thats what the internet says...

The internet is wrong.

Caracalla's father was Italian. Both sides of the family of Septimius Severus were transplanted Italians. His mother had consuls on her side, and his father was an equite. He was not even the physically the darkest man who contended for the Emperorship. That was Peccenius Niger.

Source: The Augustine Scribe.

The misunderstanding of his being "North African" comes from his father's African name, and the idea that he was black African is just an outright falsification.

Caracalla's mother is given as a Syrian Greek.
 
Joined Oct 2011
40,550 Posts | 7,631+
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Ancient Romans were more interested in knowing that you were a Roman citizen than in your "ethnicity" [actually in Roman age they weren't so fascinated by this ...].

It wasn't "where do you come from?", but "what are you?" [meaning Roman citizen or not].
 
Joined Jan 2015
4,229 Posts | 324+
Australia
Ancient Romans were more interested in knowing that you were a Roman citizen than in your "ethnicity" [actually in Roman age they weren't so fascinated by this ...].

It wasn't "where do you come from?", but "what are you?" [meaning Roman citizen or not].

They fought a war (the Social War) on the exact opposite of this principle. There were threads where you participated, covering this line of argument, and this stuff was decisively refuted. Romans were incredibly concerned with where you came from in the Republican period, and this only gradually began to die down in the Imperial era. Now of course a good bloodline wasn't enough by itself to do much, but it was definitely a big advantage over being a foreigner. The idea that just becoming a citizen meant you were now equal in the eyes of all Romans is utter .......s.
 
Joined Oct 2012
5,637 Posts | 418+
US
The internet is wrong.

Caracalla's father was Italian. Both sides of the family of Septimius Severus were transplanted Italians. His mother had consuls on her side, and his father was an equite. He was not even the physically the darkest man who contended for the Emperorship. That was Peccenius Niger.

Source: The Augustine Scribe.

The misunderstanding of his being "North African" comes from his father's African name, and the idea that he was black African is just an outright falsification.

Caracalla's mother is given as a Syrian Greek.

While Septimius Severus' mother was from a branch of the gens Fulvia that had relocated to North Africa, his father was at least of partial Punic (Phoenician) descent. His paternal great-grandfather was Punic and the first in that line to become an equestrian.
 
Joined Mar 2012
2,758 Posts | 533+
While Septimius Severus' mother was from a branch of the gens Fulvia that had relocated to North Africa, his father was at least of partial Punic (Phoenician) descent. His paternal great-grandfather was Punic and the first in that line to become an equestrian.

Not saying that you are wrong, but can you source it?
 
Joined Oct 2012
5,637 Posts | 418+
US
Not saying that you are wrong, but can you source it?

"To the grandfather of our lord the emperor caesar Lucius Septimius Severus, Pius, Pertinax, Arabicus, Adiabenicus, Parthicus Maximus, in the tenth year of his tribunicial powers, eleven times imperator, three times consul, father of the fatherland, proconsul, Lucius Septimius Severus, who was suffete, prefect, chosen duumvir by the public when the Roman citizenship was granted for the first time, forever flamen, and judged lawsuits both in the panels at Rome and as juryman for the Lepcitanian community."

Lepcis Magna, Inscriptions - Livius
 

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