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Algiers expedition (1541) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Muh Tercio,best infantry of world destroyed by 800 Turk
View attachment 29469
Your provocation is so ridiculous that I will not fall for it ..
Most humiliating military defeat in history.
- Thread starter Ante
- Start date
Your provocation is so ridiculous that I will not fall for it ..
Algers was not kind of humiliating defeat... as Essling was not a humilliating defeat for Napoleon or Friedland for Russians...
Well, I add
Karánsebes (Austria vs Austria!!!!)
Emu War (Australia vs Emu... victory for Emu)
Cottage Operation (US and Canada vs Nobody)
Karánsebes (Austria vs Austria!!!!)
Emu War (Australia vs Emu... victory for Emu)
Cottage Operation (US and Canada vs Nobody)
Joined Dec 2010
2,501 Posts | 80+
Plymouth,UK
To these I could fittingly add the Cod War, UK vs Iceland, circa mid-70s. Iceland won
Local warriors was uneffective and ridicoulus when compared with Turk soldiers according to Barbaros himself.
With locals or not,Turks gain a humiliating victory over Spaniards
Joined Jan 2017
7,817 Posts | 3,302+
Republika Srpska
1. Ineffective or not, your initial claim of 800 beating a much larger force is not true.
2. The Ottomans won a victory, not Turks.
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Vast Spanish army desteroyed by small Ottoman garrison,Charles V fled without looking back
Sure amigo,Essling or Friedland more humiliating defeat than Algiers rout.
Absolutely ridicolous statemant.
From Barbaros' own account,Gazavat-ı Hayrettin
''When they saw this case, they became very miserable becase they never thought that Turk soldiers would come out of the donjons and raid at night.
Proudly:
''Turks are now worried about their head,they crying for their captivity''
Because of that they were looking at their own eating, drinking and pleasure
''Algiers will be ours''
They said.
They didnt even think Allah Almighty would help Islam. They did trust their multiplicity
While King of Spain was proud of his countless soldiers,He suddenly lose face and because of his rage he became jew when he was an infidel''
Thats what Turks did to your Emperor and his Tercio boys
They converted him from Catholic to Judaism,lol
Joined Jan 2017
7,817 Posts | 3,302+
Republika Srpska
There is nothing ridiculous about my statement. What makes the Ottoman Empire in its Classical Period Turkish? Did they identify as Turkish? No, the official name of the empire was the Sublime Ottoman State, its ruling class preferred to use terms such as Osmanli or Rumi to describe themselves rather than Turk. In fact, the word Turk was used to describe peasants. Was its language Turkish? No, the Ottoman language had much more in common with Persian and Arabic. The government? Well, the Sultans had harems of foreign women, but the Grand Viziers as well were mostly non-Turks. The military? Eh, the backbone of the Ottoman Classical army were the Jannisaries who were often recruited by the devshirme from the Balkan Christians, that is, non-Turks.
Not humiliating at all.... Have you read how was the battle? Rain and storms.... not a battle at all.... not humillation as Gallipoli was not a humillation or Port Arthur was not humillation....
Annual yes... Algier not.
No... from the same English wikipedia (not from the Spanish sources)
he fate of the city seemed to be sealed, however the following day the weather became severe with heavy rains. Many galleys lost their anchors and 15 were wrecked onshore. Another 33 carracks sank, while many more were dispersed
And ottomans were 5.800 (5.000 algerians and 800 turks). The same year, 1541, in Tunis, the Tercio Viejo de Sicilia defeated Ottoman... not by weather but by Weapons...
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Yes they idenify as Turks by themselfs,christians and other muslim rulers
Basically everyone
From Tevarihi Ali Osman:
''Osman Ghazi's grandfather was Suleyman Shah
He was first one who came to Rum(anatolia)
From son of Abbas to era of Süleyman Shah,Arab soldier was victorius over Rum(byzantine)
Both Rum and Pers was loser
Because they were descant of Japheth,Rulers of Persia(Seljuks) strived
They said ''Arab won over us'' and wtih support of nomadic Turks who is descent of Japheth,they victorious over Arabs
After defeat of Arabs,infidel countries challanged them
İnfidels begin dont obey to Muslims
Rulers of Persia started to fear nomadic Turks
They agreed on precaution,they pulled nomadic Turks away from them
They pulled Suleyman Shah forward,he was noble of Nomads''
Seem author mixed Seljuk Suleyman Shah and Osman Ghazi's grandfather
Still,he idenitfy him and his ancestors as nomadic Turk,unlike some modern defamations which claimed by people with agenda like you
According to Kara Koyunlu Ruler Cihan Shah,descant of Ottomans and his kinsmenship with Murat II
From Behcetu't Tevarih:
''İn 1449 deceased Sultan Murat send this powerless(writer himself) to Mirza Cihan Shah with embassy
We went and made job
One day Sagavul came and said:''Mirza will talk with you alone,only you should go''
We said ''we head and bowed'' and went
During speech he(Cihan Shah) said:''Sultan Murat is my after life brother,other than this bortherhood he is my kinsmen
Reason for kinship asked.
He gave order:''find history reader Mevlana İsmail and brind book about Oghuz history''
Mevlana İsmail came with book writen with Mongolian script
it was understood from that book,Oghuz have six son
Their name was:Gök Alp,Yer Alp,Deniz Alp,Gün Alp,Ay Alp,Deniz Alp
Mirza said:My brother Sultan Murat's descant reaches Oghuz's son Gök Alp
Gök Alp's sons reach to Ertuğrul,son of Suleyman Shah,son of Kaya Alp,Son of Kızıl Buga in 45th belly(term about lineage)
Kara Yusuf's descant reach to Deniz Alp in 41th belly
When descant of this two padishah known,Mirza said:
''My brother Sultan Murat's lineage older than my lineage like difference between Sky and Sea
I dont even write Empire of Turks(or whatever latin name is),Grand Turk etcwhich used by Westerns
You can see [edit] as much as you want like invaders of your country is no different than orc horde,who dont aware who they are or hate their origin
The thing is,they knew well which nation they belonged to and they were proud about that.
Their nation not only confirmed by themselves but other Turk rulers and all christians.
Thats what Murat I's respond to Serbian King Lazar who challanged to him,from Neşri:
''God willing, I will show him the bravery of Turks''
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1-Ottomans never call themselves Osmanlı until 1870's,and Rum is region,Rumi didnt used nation mean
2-Ottoman language is high language which Turkish base with persian and arabic ornamental
3-Removed sexual reference
4-There are also many Turk viziers,but you know Sultan often want his slaves for this position for obvious reasons
5-Janniseries just minor guard group
Their number was 4.000 in Mehmet II's reign,13.000 in Suileman's reign
No ı read,unlike you
Ships destroyed by Storm(at least most of them),not soldiers
Soldiers buthchered and enslaved by Turks
Joined Jan 2017
7,817 Posts | 3,302+
Republika Srpska
Except they did. I recommend the following: C. Kafadar, A Rome of One's Own: Cultural Geography and Identity in the Lands of Rum. In fact, the word "Turk" was sometimes used as a derogatory term to describe peasant people.
Up to 90% of Ottoman language's vocabulary came from Persian and Arabic.
What?3-Yeah man,Your womens in harem invade Turk sultan with their white genes
Sure there were, but not in the Classical Period.
The number of Jannisaries expanded up to 50,000 in the 17th century. They were not a "minor guard".
Joined Jan 2017
7,817 Posts | 3,302+
Republika Srpska
I do not dispute that the Ottomans tried to connect themselves to the Kayi tribe of the Oghuz Turks. The links are however disputed as proven by Halil Inalcik. It is true that the early Ottoman state was a state created out of the Anatolian Turkic beyliks, but I was not talking about the early Ottoman Empire.
That means nothing. It was an age before accepted naming standards. Misnaming were common. After all, Indians in America were not actually connected to Indians in India.
You are applying a standard of nationalism that did not exist at the time.
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Dude didnt even read and completly ignored primary sources which ı gave
Keep repeating same ***** despite dont have any evidence/source which he can use for counter argumant against me
I am not surprized.
Keep repeating same ***** despite dont have any evidence/source which he can use for counter argumant against me
I am not surprized.
Joined Jan 2017
7,817 Posts | 3,302+
Republika Srpska
What are you talking about? I said I do not dispute the Ottomans tried to connect themselves to the Oghuz Turks which is what your sources showed.
Yes, this is correct. The devshirme practice was phased out.
Joined May 2008
1,385 Posts | 33+
Bangkok
Maybe not "Most" humiliating, but Robert Clive's heading the British EIC with sepoys to take on the Nawab of Bengal and beating them while being outnumbered (and outgunned) over 10 to 1 is more than a little humiliating.
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