Napoleon Bonaparte was the Greatest.

Joined Jun 2009
150 Posts | 4+
Awh how come everyones bashing Napoleon on this site?!



I say he's the best period. In every subject and will defend to the death against anyone who says other wise.


:p

He was a great politcian, moral leader, excellent tactition, cunning stratagist, ambitious, workaholic, patient, empathetic and flexible.


He was like Fredrick the Great, Suliman the Magnificient, Louis IVX, Saladin, Marcus Aurelius and Alexander the Great all wrapped up in the mightiest breath of life that has ever clipsed the universe.

And they would have all been inferior to him on every level.
 
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Joined Jan 2008
19,014 Posts | 433+
N/A
I pretty much agree with you except that as far as I am concerned Napoleon is inferior to one man: Gaius Julius Caesar, who embodied all the traits you listed just as much as Napoleon, plus a bit more. Not only was Caesar just as good at military matters, better at politics, he was also a literay genius and orator of the first order, as well as an engineer, astronomer and mathematician.

Napoleon for me must take the place of 2nd Greatest Man in all of History.

If it's any consolation though, this opinion would have the backing of Napoleon himself, who was a huge admirer of Caesar and acknowledged him as his equal as a general.
 
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Joined Apr 2009
4,466 Posts | 22+
Alabama, USA
I have to agree with the OP. Napoleon's my favorite historical character of all time.

@Toltec, Caeser got killed by politicians. Napoleon became king.
 
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Joined Oct 2008
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The Bright Center of the Universe
Napolean destroyed everything the French Revolution worked for. He reintroduced a monarchy and re-established the three estates. Plus what Toltec said. He re-introduced slavery and when the slaves refused he went to war with them. Total ......
 
Joined Jun 2009
147 Posts | 4+
Wales
I think the French invasion of Russia in 1812 with something like 550, 000 casualties sort of rules him out of being an excellent tactician and strategist, although that's just my opinion. I know he was brilliant elsewhere but I just think Russia was such a great loss that it can't be ignored. The slavery side of things doesn't help him out in the matter either.
 
Joined Jun 2009
150 Posts | 4+
Hello sir!, so in what was Julius Caeser a better politician!
I know its hard to compare historic relatives but maybe threw discussion we may come to a middle ground?


And yes sir, the Russian Campaign was completely Napoleons decision and his resposiblity.

But to say this marginalize's his tactical and strategic ability is not correct!
In every pitched-battle in the Russian Campaign he won and even accomplished his goal of takeing Moscow.

What he did not forsee was the lack of supplies the Russian steppe and city would have.

If that classifies him in your opinion as a poor tactician and stratagist that thats on you.

But the simple fact is that he was indeed the best stratagist and tactician of the era.


No! Napoleon ended salvery/serfdom in Germany and the other nations he conqured and is critisied for not doing the same in Russia.
Same for France.


He had the choice of anarchy in following the revolution of giveing the people stability etc.
Many people were better off under Napoleon in general.


He was not some crazy git, he was not a dictator cliche but an autocrat.
There was no "Night of the Long Knives" or starving his own people like Franco.

No Holocoust, not Moa Zidong responsible for the death of millions. No gassing of the Kurds.

He went to war some times for his own bidding, some times not.

He was the greatest but he wasnt perfect.
 
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Joined Jun 2009
150 Posts | 4+
No! Napoleon ended salvery/serfdom in Germany and the other nations he conqured and is critisied for not doing the same in Russia.
Same for France.


I ducked nothing.

Napoleon detested civil inequalities and pledged to ban forced servitude in any nation that came under his control. The Ancien Regime (i.e., the old order) in the remainder of Continental Europe had bound millions of peasants to their land in intolerable servitude to a wealthy luxury class whose members were born into their positions.
 
Joined Apr 2008
7,924 Posts | 29+
Hyperborea
I afraid you have ducked the question,

In 1794 the Revolution abolished slavery in 1802 Napoleon re-legalised it.

Is a historical fact. Denying it is ducking it.

Changing the subject to something about which serfdom and continetal Europe which is not part of the question to avoid answering the question at hand, is ducking it.


To be really clear, we are talking specifically about the slave trade.

The slave trade is the transportation a slaves from Africa to the carribean to be sold to plantation owners to work on plantations.

In Napoleon 1802 legalised this after it had been abolished in 1794. Defend this decision if you can.
 
Joined Jan 2008
19,014 Posts | 433+
N/A
I'll answer this question which several are enquiring after:

So in what was Julius Caeser a better politician?!

Out of all the great personages of history, Caesar, if anyone deserves to be called a true master of politics, rivalled perhaps only by Otto Von Bismarck and his own nephew Augustus.

The sole criticism that I am hearing is that Caesar was ultimately assasinated while Napoleon was not. Since there were several attempts to assasinate Bonaparte I don't see how he can really claim to stand above Caesar in this - Caesar just refused to use bodyguards. If Caesar had a fault, it was also that he was far, far too lenient.

Caesar's political career is a study of genius in the art of both reading and directing political trends and using them to his advantage. The way that he rose up the Cursus Honorum from being born into an impoverished noble family (much as Napoleon was) to building up a signifigant power base and translating this into a string of political offices, including the prestigous Pontifex Maximus, outmaneuvering all of his opponents in their attempts to bring him crashing downalone entitles him to be called a political genius. But Caesar's true masterpiece, that even Napoleon cannot rival, is his creation and maintainance of the First Triumvirate. In his forging of a political alliance to sieze unrivalled power in the Republic, and in his use of said power immeditaly afterwards, Caesar demonstrated an unrivalled mastery of both domestic and foriegn policy in his own time and estabalished himself as a politician and statesman for the ages. And this was all before he had ever fought a single major battle. As Caesar embarked on the second stage of his career; the military stage, he only added to his demonstratiion of mastery of politics and statescraft. The Conquest of Gaulis not only a masterpiece of military strategy and tactics, but also a masterpiece of statesmanship and politics in which Caesar transformed what had been countless squabbling tribes into a unified and stable province dominated by parties devoted to his interests, in the process demonstrating that he could master other people's politics as ably as he could master his own. And while all of this was going on he had to, while conducting one of the greatest wars in history, maintain his influence back in Rome, ensuring that the ground on which he stood was not cut out from underneath him, and in doing this he further demonstrated his political genius. Following the Gallic War he embarked on his great Civil War, where he made use of politics and diplomacy to win just as much as by waging war. Having seized absolute power, and having been annointed Dictator Perpetuus by the people of Rome, he proceeded to accomplish more in just one year of ruling than most rulers manage in a lifetime. His farseeing statesmanship was demonstrated most clearly of all in his laying the foundations for an Imperial Nation-State that was arguably the greatest of all Rome's achievements, and while doing this he showed himself to be one of the greatest administrators of all time (although I acknowledge freely that Napoleon was also an extraordinary administrator). Ultimately, Caesar's tragedy was that he tried to do what he did without violence, without terror, but instead attempted to try and win his enemies over to his side. For the most part, he did succeed. It is notable that out of almost 1000 Senators, only 60 joined the conspiracy to assasinate him. Caesar refused to employ bodyguards, saying that to have done so would have been a sign that he was afraid of death, which he was not. And so he met his fate. Such is the tragedy of the greatest genius ever produced by Rome. For a much for succinct and well-written account of what I've summarized and alluded to, I recommend reading Caesar: Politician and Statesman by Matthias Gelzer.

Napoleon was in his own right a political and administrative genius, but he simply cannot compete. His brilliance was marked by two flaws: he sometimes lacked foresight in politics, and he lacked Caesar genius for comprehending , acting on, and shaping realities. Napoleon's Empire ultimately was not built on a stable foundation as Caesar's was, and for this reason it could not stand. He lacked Caesar's marked ability to read trends in certain areas, and for this reason fell. That he was ultimately defeated owes not to a faliure in military affairs, but to a faliure in the political arena. Thus though his rule was longer than Caesar's, ultimately Napoleon failed in the long run.

Caesar by contrast, though he was assasinated, was in the end the winner. The events that followed his death followed the political lines he had laid down, and his foresight in selecting as his heir his nephew Octavian (later the Emperor Augustus) allowed for the Roman Empire in its great potential to be realized. No greater vindication of his political genius and foresight is possible.

A much better Caesar vs Napoleon debate is which of them was the greater military genius. Anyone want to take me up on it?
 
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Joined Jun 2009
150 Posts | 4+
Sir that is a fact and cannot be debatible, similar to him abolishing it shortly after.
 
Joined Apr 2008
7,924 Posts | 29+
Hyperborea
Sir that is a fact and cannot be debatible, similar to him abolishing it shortly after.

Napoleon didn't abolish slavery shortly after. It was abolished in 1818 by the Royalist government.

In your initial claim you said you would defend Napoleon on any issue. You seem unwilling or unable to do this. You either avoid the issue of spread false facts.

Seems to me nobody is capable of defending Napoleon for his reintroduction of slavery and say he was right to do it and why they believe this.
 
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Joined Jun 2009
48 Posts | 0+
One of the most important commanders in history.
He tried many ways to reach the goal.​

 
Joined Jun 2009
150 Posts | 4+
Well I consider Serfdom

No! Napoleon ended salvery/serfdom in Germany and the other nations he conqured and is critisied for not doing the same in Russia.
Same for France.

the same as slavery but if you would like to speak purely of slave trade then, he did infact abolish it on March 29 1815.


Pretty late but he got around to it!
 
Joined Apr 2008
7,924 Posts | 29+
Hyperborea
His abolishoin of it seems to have come from British pressure. Also he didn't just reintroduce slavery but seems to have politically suppressed the abolishionist movement in France too as part of his clampdown on free thinking while promoting anti-abolishionist writing..

The version of slavery he introduced is reguarded by many carribean historians as the most brutal kind. The Code Napoleon too seems to have contributed to slavery.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...4d36Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

All in all the petite Corsican is a pretty lame figure.
 

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