Orderic Vitalis' Historia Ecclesiastica is the basic source of what we know about these English exiles, not a perfect source indeed, it is not contemporary, Books III and IV were written in the first half of XII century, fifty years or so after Dyrrhachium.
And does this source say that every single Varangian at Dyrrhachium was an Anglo-Saxon? Or that every Anglo-Saxon exile (excepting the "Earls and barons") was a warrior?
What about the families of all these English huscarls that joined the Varangian guard? Did they all leave their wives and children behind in England?
What about priests? Did these Anglo-Saxon exiles travel all the way to Constantinople without a single English priest to tend to their souls during the long journey?
Joined Dec 2011
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Can you quote the relevant passage please? I don't have access to a copy myself.
Joined Dec 2011
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"A number of modern scholars believe that among the first military operations in which the Anglo-Saxons of the Varangian guard were involved was the Byzantine campaign in the Balkans against the Italo-Norman forces of Robert Guiscard. The Alexiad of Anna Comnena mentions their participation and elsewhere reports that these troops came from “Thule”.
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"A number of modern scholars believe that among the first military operations in which the Anglo-Saxons of the Varangian guard were involved was the Byzantine campaign in the Balkans against the Italo-Norman forces of Robert Guiscard. The Alexiad of Anna Comnena mentions their participation and elsewhere reports that these troops came from “Thule”.
All that does is state that there were Anglo-Saxons among the forces that fought Guiscard. It gives no indication how many there were or whether they comprised the majority of the Varangian forces that participated in that battle, which is what I asked in post #40, to which you replied claiming that the Alexiad could prove this.
Well, since nobody seems to have sources which can confirm what proportion of the Anglo-Saxon exiles actually went in to the Varangian guard, as opposed to other occupations, I guess we'll have to leave it there.
Joined Dec 2009
5,364 Posts | 1,122+
Blachernai
"A number of modern scholars believe that among the first military operations in which the Anglo-Saxons of the Varangian guard were involved was the Byzantine campaign in the Balkans against the Italo-Norman forces of Robert Guiscard. The Alexiad of Anna Comnena mentions their participation and elsewhere reports that these troops came from “Thule”.
There was an uptick in Anglo-Saxons joining the Byzantine army in the second half of the eleventh century. Anna reflects this in her terminology, but I see no reason to doubt that the historical recruiting grounds of Rus' and Scandinavia were not still providing the bulk of the troops.
Anna also writes in classicizing Greek, which means attempting to avoid using words that are not in classical Greek. She fails at this miserably, of course, but we need to remember that she's using the term Thule because it's in the acceptable list of words. ("Varangian" here is okay because Psellos used it!)
Book 2: "He asked the men on guard at the various towers who they were. He learnt that at one point the defenders were the so-called ‘Immortals’ (a regiment peculiar to the Roman army); at another the Varangians from Thule (by these I mean the axe-bearing barbarians); at another the Nemitzi (these also belonged to a barbarian race which has for a long time served in the armed forces of the Empire)"
"Thereupon Nicephorus Palaeologus went off to the palace, but when he saw the general dispersion of the army and the preoccupation with loot, believing it would be easy to beat them he begged Botaniates to give him the barbarians from the island of Thule;with them he could thrust the Comneni from the city. But Botaniates, who had given up all hope, pretended that he wished to avoid civil war. ‘If you take my advice, Nicephorus,’ he said, ‘now that the Comneni are already in the capital, you will go away and negotiate terms of peace with them.’ Nicephorus left him, but most unwillingly."
Book 12: "First of all he ravaged all the seaboard with a countless host of Franks and Kelts, together with the entire contingent of men from the Isle of Thule who normally serve in the Roman army but had through force of circumstances then joined him; not to mention an even stronger force of Germans and Celtiberians. All these men, united in one army, were spread along the whole Adriatic coastline."
Joined Dec 2011
3,227 Posts | 192+
Leofric Abbot of Peterborough was with the huscarls at Hastings, died shortly after from his wounds.
Possible leader of the huscarls who went to Constantinople.
Hereward the Wake - Wikipedia
Joined Dec 2011
3,227 Posts | 192+
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Skuldelev 1 is an example of the supply ships that would have accompanied the huscarl fleet. Probably all returned to England with trade goods.
en.wikipedia.org
Skuldelev ships - Wikipedia
Joined Nov 2008
2,795 Posts | 1,085+
England
Johnathan Shepard did some detailed work on this subject, and if anyone missed the links I will post them again:
The reproduction of the latter paper is not very good, but if you download the pdf it is better.
The English and Byzantium: a study of their role in the Byzantine army in the later eleventh century
This study reviews the evidence for the employment of Anglo-Saxons by the imperial Byzantine authorities. Although scattered and heterogeneous, the data is consistent with Orderic Vitalis’ statement that a sizable number of Anglo-Saxons of high
www.academia.edu
Another New England? Anglo-Saxon settlement on the Black Sea
Another New England? Anglo-Saxon settlement on the Black Sea
www.academia.edu
The reproduction of the latter paper is not very good, but if you download the pdf it is better.
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This thread has aroused my curiosity: Were there any Anglo-Saxons who visited the Byzantine Empire before 1066?
(Let's discount slaves who may have ended up there via human-trafficking, and focus on people who traveled of their own free will).
There were Anglo-Saxons, like Benedict Biscop, who made journeys to Rome as early as the mid-7th century, so clearly our early-medieval forebears weren't averse to long journeys around the continent...
(Let's discount slaves who may have ended up there via human-trafficking, and focus on people who traveled of their own free will).
There were Anglo-Saxons, like Benedict Biscop, who made journeys to Rome as early as the mid-7th century, so clearly our early-medieval forebears weren't averse to long journeys around the continent...
Joined Nov 2008
2,795 Posts | 1,085+
England
No doubt. Indeed St Willibald who was born in Wessex about the year 700, and eventually became a bishop in Bavaria, had in his youth travelled to the East spending two years in Constantinople.
Ah, I wasn't familiar with him, probably because he seems to have spent most of his life on the continent as opposed to back home in Britain.
Religion seems to have been a strong motivator for English people to make such lengthy journeys in those days. I wonder if any traveled for other reasons...
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