Origins of Slavs: Archaeology, Linguistics, Anthropology, History

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Archived
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
Mosquito said:
By calling me nationalist you are suggesting that my posts are agenda based, that Im blind and deaf on arguments of other people in the discussion, not able to accept the point of viev of other people even if Im wrong.
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it was a post somewhere, where you recognised you are a nationalist. don't tell me you want me to search, please!
 
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
Domen said:
Oh, OK. And on their way back were they also surprised, that vlachs/rumani from Transnistria know to speak slavic even today?
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oh, I'm realy losing my time with you guys(mosquito, domen, fakirbakir). you're just a mixture of mediocrity and a kind of anti-romanian maliciosity. take example from tulun: even hungarian, he is more equilibrated. of course if your sources are based on vlachs living in slavic areea, half asimilated, and who forgot 70% from their maternal language, you'll get the answers you are satisfied
 
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
fakirbakir said:
p. 107 "Cihac's work is appreciated by specialists as being far superior to Laurian's linguistic fantasies"
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of course: Laurian was a mediocre(like others) who wanted to "purify" the language: he failed, nobody deemed him, and he is quasi-unknown.
on the othe side, cihac was a pineer in etimology(if not the first), and like other pioneer, had many defaults(ex: columb believed he discovered india)
not at lat, maybe you should mention he was a surgeon who embraced filology, czech(tha means slav, and 0% romanian), who established in Romania, and published in nowdays germany.
what do you say about?
 
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
Last edited:
Domen said:
"Reliable" sources = Romanian sources ??? Or something more than this?
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the best linguist in romanian language are romanians, indeed. at least you should take a look on them: they are neither disperate to justify forced asimilation of vlachs from slavic teritories, or intoxicated with garbage hungarian propaganda prior to WWI
I think it would be not a bad ideea to see the etimology of the polish "eski" like this: when vlachs invaded polish teritories in nowday Romania(10-11 cnt, Nestor), they released the majority of the poles, but not before to force them to change the end of their names in "escu". later, the poles adopted slavicised "eski"
 
M

Mosquito

Joined Apr 2011
6,626 Posts | 7+
Sarmatia
Perix said:
I think it would be not a bad ideea to see the etimology of the polish "eski" like this: when vlachs invaded polish teritories in nowday Romania(10-11 cnt, Nestor), they released the majority of the poles, but not before to force them to change the end of their names in "escu". later, the poles adopted slavicised "eski"
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Polish historiography knows nothing about such events. In the 10 and 11th century Poles were fighting with Roman Empire, Czech Kingdom, Kiev Rus, Denmark, Prussians and Elbe Slavs but they were rather far from territory of nowaday Romania.
 
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
it is funny! speaking about romanian historiography regarding slavs in Romania teritory: we haven't learned in school about. it was avaible in historical works, but, without internet....the first time I heard was from your friends, the hungarians, who used Nestor chronicle as a proove we were not originars here:lol:
 
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
Mosquito said:
In the 10 and 11th century Poles were fighting with Roman Empire, Czech Kingdom, Kiev Rus, Denmark, Prussians and Elbe Slavs but they were rather far from territory of nowaday Romania.
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and still you are not nationalist?:lol:
 
F

fakirbakir

Joined Mar 2013
161 Posts | 0+
UK
What is your opinion on this matter?

"The hypothesis of an ancient Slavic people that spread through migration had always appealed Slav nationalists, and is still widely held, but there is little sound evidence to recommend it. Most of all, it fails to make plausible why a regional and hitherto virtually unknown group could take over almost the whole of eastern and east central Europe in a relatively short period from c. 500 to c. 650 A.D.

—Pohl (2003, p. 582)"
 
arras

arras

Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
fakirbakir said:
What is your opinion on this matter?

"The hypothesis of an ancient Slavic people that spread through migration had always appealed Slav nationalists, and is still widely held, but there is little sound evidence to recommend it. Most of all, it fails to make plausible why a regional and hitherto virtually unknown group could take over almost the whole of eastern and east central Europe in a relatively short period from c. 500 to c. 650 A.D.

—Pohl (2003, p. 582)"
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"Unknown" means unknown to Romans and Greeks. That does not mean they did not exist prior to appearing in Roman sources.
 
D

Domen

Joined Dec 2009
5,558 Posts | 0+
Poland
why a regional and hitherto virtually unknown group
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I think the assessment that they were "virtually unknown" is wrong in the first place.

They were known, but under different names than "Slavs".

This is also explanation why "people from nowhere" could expand so fast - they were simply not "from nowhere".

And also the role of Hunnic invasion was important for creating prospects for Slavic expansion - the Huns "cleared the path" for the Slavs.

They were also not a "regional" group - they lived in quite a large territory most probably.

Mosquito said:
In the 10 and 11th century Poles were fighting with Roman Empire, Czech Kingdom, Kiev Rus, Denmark, Prussians and Elbe Slavs but they were rather far from territory of nowaday Romania.
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and still you are not nationalist?:lol:
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What was nationalistic in Mosquito's post where he simply stated facts that Poland in the 10th and 11th centuries fought against the HRE, the Czech Kingdom, Kievan Rus, Prussians, Polabian Slavs and Denmark, but not against Vlachs? These are facts and facts cannot be nationalistic.
 
M

Mosquito

Joined Apr 2011
6,626 Posts | 7+
Sarmatia
fakirbakir said:
why a regional and hitherto virtually unknown group could take over almost the whole of eastern and east central Europe in a relatively short period from c. 500 to c. 650 A.D.

—Pohl (2003, p. 582)"
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People who were ancestors of the tribes which later created state known as Poland were very well known. They were the mix of the Vistula Veneti, Sarmatians and probably also Vandals.
 
Karamzin

Karamzin

Joined Nov 2013
509 Posts | 0+
Russian Federation
Mosquito said:
People who were ancestors of the tribes which later created state known as Poland were very well known. They were the mix of the Vistula Veneti, Sarmatians and probably also Vandals.
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Sarmatians? Are you serious? :)
 
Perix

Perix

Joined Dec 2009
10,107 Posts | 48+
Romania
Domen said:
What was nationalistic in Mosquito's post where he simply stated facts that Poland in the 10th and 11th centuries fought against the HRE, ...
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aha, that roman empire! quite different, practical the reader would understood the polish fought in all the corners of Europe, not in a nowday poland
 
D

Domen

Joined Dec 2009
5,558 Posts | 0+
Poland
Last edited:
There are some similarities between Sarmatians and early Slavs. Slavs were farmers, not nomads. But it should be noted that not all of Sarmatians were nomads - sources mention also Sarmatians who were farmers and lived in forested zones, not in steppes. It is known that Sarmatians had female warriors. Early Slavs also had them - primary sources mention Slavic female warriors fighting in the siege of Constantinople in year 626, together with Slavic men. Metal items & jewellery typical for Iranian steppe cultures (e.g. Martinovka culture) were found in Slavic settlements.

Apart from female warriors in 626, we also have info about Slavic female warlords (commanders) among Polabian Slavs and Pomeranians.

Even if Slavs had initially nothing to do with Sarmatians, it is very probable that some Sarmatians in the end melted into Slavic ethnos.
 
D

Domen

Joined Dec 2009
5,558 Posts | 0+
Poland
Actually the myth was invented by Western European chroniclers, not by Polish nobles.
 
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