Persianization of Central Asia and South Asia

Joined Jun 2014
4,516 Posts | 85+
India
yes, check this photo - it's from the past week:
10367737_10152512614004717_1742600800644781527_n.jpg


The sign says "Pashtunistan Wat" - a nationalist Pashtun sign in Kabul which was taken down recently by pro-Abdullah supporters.

The men in photo appear to be Hazaras as such appearences are rare among Tajiks. Well, that is the problem of all nations in 'south asia' , you hardly have any nation where there is only one ethnic group in overwhelming majority, due to this there are too many faultlines which get flared up time and again. As for Hazaras, they had great fight with Talibans in 96-01 and there were horrifying massacres . I heard that Ashraf Gani got support from Uzbeks and this was very perplexing as uzbeks are also part of grand anti pashtun coalition, they seek to benefit from this just like Turkmens by joining with their respective nations.
Even though Abdullah Abdullah's NAlliance was pro India and most of Pashtuns are virulently anti India, I must say that Tajik arrogance is indeed very unhealthy, we have forum where they bash Pashtuns simply because they do not speak Persian and not leave their mother tongue Pashto, hating someone just because he does not speak your language is sign of linguistic chauvinism.
The sad plight of Pashtuns is that their brothers across border in Pakistan are in mortal conflict with Pakistani army and so, Pashtuns may become like Kurds , having a large population but not a single nation where they all live. In this connection, Robert Blackwell ex ambassador to India from US predicted this 5 years ago, his idea was that non Pashtuns have gathered strength as due to fear of Taliban, they were heavily recruited in army and hence Afghanistan may be more divided in post 2014 than it was under Taliban who were powerful than any other group and controlled most of Afghanistan with even " Lion of Panjasheer" defensive against them limited to areas around northern Afghanistan . Do not expect Tajiks to be weak this time, wheher we like it or not but Abdullah had to lose and his attitude since then is just beginning of division of this small nation with old history.
 
Joined Jun 2014
42 Posts | 0+
Aryana (Arya Vaeja) Avestanian Soil
The men in photo appear to be Hazaras as such appearences are rare among Tajiks. Well, that is the problem of all nations in 'south asia' , you hardly have any nation where there is only one ethnic group in overwhelming majority, due to this there are too many faultlines which get flared up time and again. As for Hazaras, they had great fight with Talibans in 96-01 and there were horrifying massacres . I heard that Ashraf Gani got support from Uzbeks and this was very perplexing as uzbeks are also part of grand anti pashtun coalition, they seek to benefit from this just like Turkmens by joining with their respective nations.
Even though Abdullah Abdullah's NAlliance was pro India and most of Pashtuns are virulently anti India, I must say that Tajik arrogance is indeed very unhealthy, we have forum where they bash Pashtuns simply because they do not speak Persian and not leave their mother tongue Pashto, hating someone just because he does not speak your language is sign of linguistic chauvinism.
The sad plight of Pashtuns is that their brothers across border in Pakistan are in mortal conflict with Pakistani army and so, Pashtuns may become like Kurds , having a large population but not a single nation where they all live. In this connection, Robert Blackwell ex ambassador to India from US predicted this 5 years ago, his idea was that non Pashtuns have gathered strength as due to fear of Taliban, they were heavily recruited in army and hence Afghanistan may be more divided in post 2014 than it was under Taliban who were powerful than any other group and controlled most of Afghanistan with even " Lion of Panjasheer" defensive against them limited to areas around northern Afghanistan . Do not expect Tajiks to be weak this time, wheher we like it or not but Abdullah had to lose and his attitude since then is just beginning of division of this small nation with old history.

I agree with everything you said. In the protests you could see Mongoloids such as the Hazaras, Aimaqs and Qizilbashs in the front-line. There is a solution though. Like ancient times - all the Arya tribes ("Iranic") of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Tajikistan should unite and revive their ancient Aryana (Arya Vaeja) once again. If this Arya unity takes place - then things will go very well. Instead of false ethnic names (exonyms) like "Tajik", "Pamiri", "Pashtun" or "Afghan" they should use the word "Arya" like their ancestors and call their land Arya Vaeja or Aryana. Even better if they could make an ultimate language by using features and words from all Arya ("Iranic") languages like Dari, Pashto, Pamiri languages, and Yaghnobi and call it the "Arya" language like their ancestors.
 
Joined Jun 2014
4,516 Posts | 85+
India
I agree with everything you said. In the protests you could see Mongoloids such as the Hazaras, Aimaqs and Qizilbashs in the front-line. There is a solution though. Like ancient times - all the Arya tribes ("Iranic") of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Tajikistan should unite and revive their ancient Aryana (Arya Vaeja) once again. If this Arya unity takes place - then things will go very well. Instead of false ethnic names (exonyms) like "Tajik", "Pamiri", "Pashtun" or "Afghan" they should use the word "Arya" like their ancestors and call their land Arya Vaeja or Aryana. Even better if they could make an ultimate language by using features and words from all Arya ("Iranic") languages like Dari, Pashto, Pamiri languages, and Yaghnobi and call it the "Arya" language like their ancestors.

This is historically wrong as much as nonsense that Pashtuns are sons of jews and Arabs. Like it or not but if we go back to even 600AD, we could clearly see that areas around East Afghanistan and North West Pakistan were not dominated by Eastern Iranic Aryans but by Indo Aryans, Gandhara was situated in this very area and we know for a fact that Gandhari prakrit was Indo Aryan, just as Iranic people had concept of Arya Vaeja, Indians had concept of Aryavarta . Modern day Jalalabad was called Nagarhar( which in Indic means city of shiva ) from which you have Nangarhar province and Peshawar was Purushpura. Pashtuns are an Eastern Iranic people who replaced Indo Aryans in Gandhara in wake of brutal Ghazanavid expansion most probably, modern day Hindkos of Pakistan are descendants of real Gandharans actually.

So should we really go back to ancient times as at that time it was Indo Aryans who lived in all lands east of Kabul river and practised Hinduism and Buddhism?
 
Joined Jun 2014
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Aryana (Arya Vaeja) Avestanian Soil
This is historically wrong as much as nonsense that Pashtuns are sons of jews and Arabs. Like it or not but if we go back to even 600AD, we could clearly see that areas around East Afghanistan and North West Pakistan were not dominated by Eastern Iranic Aryans but by Indo Aryans, Gandhara was situated in this very area and we know for a fact that Gandhari prakrit was Indo Aryan, just as Iranic people had concept of Arya Vaeja, Indians had concept of Aryavarta . Modern day Jalalabad was called Nagarhar( which in Indic means city of shiva ) from which you have Nangarhar province and Peshawar was Purushpura. Pashtuns are an Eastern Iranic people who replaced Indo Aryans in Gandhara in wake of brutal Ghazanavid expansion most probably, modern day Hindkos of Pakistan are descendants of real Gandharans actually.

So should we really go back to ancient times as at that time it was Indo Aryans who lived in all lands east of Kabul river and practised Hinduism and Buddhism?

You're probably right that in ancient times some areas of Afghanistan were speaking an Indo-Arya language but what if the classification of Arya and Indo-Arya languages are tempered by imperialist enemies like the British to keep divisions among the Arya peoples? What if the current languages of Afghanistan are just an evolved form of its ancient languages like Gandhari? Also what if in ancient times the Indian Aryas and Aryas in the north of the Indus river (Afghanistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Tajikistan etc) could understand each other but just had dialectal or accent differences?

Lets say that it's true that some areas of Afghanistan spoke an Indo-Arya language before and this language was not intelligibly mutable with the Arya ("Iranic") Avestan language. Even if this is the case - we can still unite and the plan to create the one ultimate language (Arya language) can still work. We can take some features and words from Indo-Arya languages too - even better because Indian Aryas can also be allied with us.

About religion - I would love the original religion of the Aryas like Vedism and Zarathustraism to be revived in Afghanistan. I proudly denounce and promote the removal of foreign religions like Islam which was forced upon us. Anyone who wants to practice Islam should go to Arab soil. Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iran and Tajikistan is Arya soil.
 
Joined Jun 2014
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India
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I will reply to you more as soon as I get time, you make good points basically.
 
Joined Jun 2014
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Aryana (Arya Vaeja) Avestanian Soil
I will reply to you more as soon as I get time, you make good points basically.

Alright brother.

By the way, in the first paragraph above, second line, i meant to write "tampered" - not tempered.
 
Joined Mar 2013
1,227 Posts | 238+
Breakdancing on the Moon.
What if...what if Mazdaarya actually picked up peer reviewed books on history and linguistics rather than speculating? Ajan is right, that's just a load of inane tosh.

No the Afghan languages are not evolutions of various Indo-Aryan Prakrits, they belong firmly in the Indo-Aryan family whereas the modern languages are Iranian - languages which were differentiated millennia ago by several mutually exclusive sound changes. No those languages weren't mutually exclusive for a number of reasons.

Books. Seriously there are these cool things. Written by scholars. Peer reviewed. Published. Reviewed. Argued. Debated. So on and forth. Little stacks of paper with writing on them. Writing which tells you things.

It's magic!
 
Joined Jun 2014
42 Posts | 0+
Aryana (Arya Vaeja) Avestanian Soil
What if...what if Mazdaarya actually picked up peer reviewed books on history and linguistics rather than speculating? Ajan is right, that's just a load of inane tosh.

No the Afghan languages are not evolutions of various Indo-Aryan Prakrits, they belong firmly in the Indo-Aryan family whereas the modern languages are Iranian - languages which were differentiated millennia ago by several mutually exclusive sound changes. No those languages weren't mutually exclusive for a number of reasons.

Books. Seriously there are these cool things. Written by scholars. Peer reviewed. Published. Reviewed. Argued. Debated. So on and forth. Little stacks of paper with writing on them. Writing which tells you things.

It's magic!

There are many detailed books written about these languages but the topic of this thread was originally about the Persianization of Central and South Asia. I haven't found any book which has detailed information about it - this is why I started the thread - so people can shine some light. As the thread went a little off-topic - I wrote what I knew so no need to get annoyed.
 
Joined Jun 2014
4,516 Posts | 85+
India
Alright brother.

By the way, in the first paragraph above, second line, i meant to write "tampered" - not tempered.

Do not bother 'biradar', English is not my strong point and I had understood your intent. Anyway, as promised let me explain this in a simple manner. When we talk about things like ethnicity and race, the item most important in all these discussions is language. Why? It lives with us for 24 hours a day, differentiates us from other less evolved beings and makes exchange of culture and material knowledge possible. The story starts some 7,000 years ago in Pontic steppes in modern day Russia and Kazakhastan, some people domesticate horses and practice a form of agriculture mixed with animal husbandry, learn wheel early on and have a religion where sky, fire and water are revered along with horse sacrifices. We call them PIE( Poto Indo Europeans). Starting from somewhere around 3500 BC, this group living closely starts differentiating into other groups, as this happens one original language gives birth to various new ones. These new groups while having many commonalities, have experienced mutually exclusive changes in language which means that their general culture also changes. Some 10 major groups can be identified which would remain as cohesive for next many milennia
Greek, Germanic, Balto Slavic and Indo Iranian to name most notable.
Somewhere around 2500 BC, a group becomes dominant in modern day Kazakhastan and Russian borderlands, this was eastern most branch of IEs
We call it Indo Iranian. This group is one around 2000 BC, is credited with Andronovo culture and most notably Sintasta culture, the Indo Iranians invented chariots with spoked wheel , brought a revolution in world and moved in all directions. Wait, split again takes place after this.
Indo Iranian group gets differentiated into 3 groups- Iranian, Nuristani and Indo Aryan.

So, some 4 thousand years ago, separation has taken place- Iranians are again divided into many groups like Eastern, Northern and Western. One group among Iranians reach Persia and create great empires, others remain in Bactria and Sogdiana while Scythians and Ossetians roam in area from Central Asia to Black Sea. Now, changes take place but common ancestor and common religion of all Iranaians remain the Iranian split from Indo Iranian. Hence, we have similar names and gods throughout entire Iranic zone which extended from Gansu in China to Ukraine and N Kazakhastan to Iraq border with Iran. Among these, homa, cult of fire and various IE gods remain important and we call them Iranic. Distinct from this group were Indo Aryans who instead of moving anywhere went to lands south of Hindukush, while doing this they were accompanied by some proto Eastern Iranians.
The Indo Aryans now completely distinct from Iranians develop their own Vedic religion, spread their culture and language from Hindukush to Myanmar border and Kashmir to Sri Lanka. Some East Iranians continued living in East Afghanistan along with Indo Aryans.
Indo Aryans are now in India, undergo many changes and in 21st century are second largest linguistic subgroup after sinitic.

In AF Pak area, IA remained dominant( not that they were only ones) till Islamic invasions and have a great history of their own. Gandhari was a prakrit IA language in early centuries from old IA and please note that when Gandhari came into existence, IA split was some 1000 years old. So relation between Gandhari and Iranic languages is not possible except a common ancestor in 2000 bc.

If you wish I can pick up any gandhari text , give its written form in English, translate in my native tongue and then you will see how close it is to modern day Indic ones rather than Iranic tongues. So by no means, Pashto is related to Gandhari, it is as much related as Arabic is to Aramaic and nothing more.
Pashto is east Iranic in line with Bactrian, sogdian and saka languages and when sakas arrived here, their culture and language was already very distinct.

This being reality, why can not we have better co operation? We can have after all we were one at a time, have many similarities in our original language and even genetically are related( do not go by looks, IAryans and pashtuns and Afghan tajiks indeed are related) and it is better to cooperate rather than fighting each other due to a semitic religion from deserts of Arabia dividing us.
The question is will we be able to do this? Will Tajiks and Pashtuns remember their common origin? Will both of them manage to throw off Islam? Will ancient great ritualistic religion be revived?

If all this happens, Afghanistan may be a reality as Arya Vaejo was more in Afghanistan than in Iran, but sadly I do not see any of it happening.As of now, country is set for division due to Tajik linguistic chauvinism and extreme fanaticism of Taliban.

Hope this makes some sense.
 
Joined Jun 2014
4,516 Posts | 85+
India
There are many detailed books written about these languages but the topic of this thread was originally about the Persianization of Central and South Asia. I haven't found any book which has detailed information about it - this is why I started the thread - so people can shine some light. As the thread went a little off-topic - I wrote what I knew so no need to get annoyed.

My next post will be about Persianization .
 
Joined Mar 2013
15,541 Posts | 714+
India
Joined Jun 2014
42 Posts | 0+
Aryana (Arya Vaeja) Avestanian Soil
Do not bother 'biradar', English is not my strong point and I had understood your intent. Anyway, as promised let me explain this in a simple manner. When we talk about things like ethnicity and race, the item most important in all these discussions is language. Why? It lives with us for 24 hours a day, differentiates us from other less evolved beings and makes exchange of culture and material knowledge possible. The story starts some 7,000 years ago in Pontic steppes in modern day Russia and Kazakhastan, some people domesticate horses and practice a form of agriculture mixed with animal husbandry, learn wheel early on and have a religion where sky, fire and water are revered along with horse sacrifices. We call them PIE( Poto Indo Europeans). Starting from somewhere around 3500 BC, this group living closely starts differentiating into other groups, as this happens one original language gives birth to various new ones. These new groups while having many commonalities, have experienced mutually exclusive changes in language which means that their general culture also changes. Some 10 major groups can be identified which would remain as cohesive for next many milennia
Greek, Germanic, Balto Slavic and Indo Iranian to name most notable.
Somewhere around 2500 BC, a group becomes dominant in modern day Kazakhastan and Russian borderlands, this was eastern most branch of IEs
We call it Indo Iranian. This group is one around 2000 BC, is credited with Andronovo culture and most notably Sintasta culture, the Indo Iranians invented chariots with spoked wheel , brought a revolution in world and moved in all directions. Wait, split again takes place after this.
Indo Iranian group gets differentiated into 3 groups- Iranian, Nuristani and Indo Aryan.

So, some 4 thousand years ago, separation has taken place- Iranians are again divided into many groups like Eastern, Northern and Western. One group among Iranians reach Persia and create great empires, others remain in Bactria and Sogdiana while Scythians and Ossetians roam in area from Central Asia to Black Sea. Now, changes take place but common ancestor and common religion of all Iranaians remain the Iranian split from Indo Iranian. Hence, we have similar names and gods throughout entire Iranic zone which extended from Gansu in China to Ukraine and N Kazakhastan to Iraq border with Iran. Among these, homa, cult of fire and various IE gods remain important and we call them Iranic. Distinct from this group were Indo Aryans who instead of moving anywhere went to lands south of Hindukush, while doing this they were accompanied by some proto Eastern Iranians.
The Indo Aryans now completely distinct from Iranians develop their own Vedic religion, spread their culture and language from Hindukush to Myanmar border and Kashmir to Sri Lanka. Some East Iranians continued living in East Afghanistan along with Indo Aryans.
Indo Aryans are now in India, undergo many changes and in 21st century are second largest linguistic subgroup after sinitic.

In AF Pak area, IA remained dominant( not that they were only ones) till Islamic invasions and have a great history of their own. Gandhari was a prakrit IA language in early centuries from old IA and please note that when Gandhari came into existence, IA split was some 1000 years old. So relation between Gandhari and Iranic languages is not possible except a common ancestor in 2000 bc.

If you wish I can pick up any gandhari text , give its written form in English, translate in my native tongue and then you will see how close it is to modern day Indic ones rather than Iranic tongues. So by no means, Pashto is related to Gandhari, it is as much related as Arabic is to Aramaic and nothing more.
Pashto is east Iranic in line with Bactrian, sogdian and saka languages and when sakas arrived here, their culture and language was already very distinct.

This being reality, why can not we have better co operation? We can have after all we were one at a time, have many similarities in our original language and even genetically are related( do not go by looks, IAryans and pashtuns and Afghan tajiks indeed are related) and it is better to cooperate rather than fighting each other due to a semitic religion from deserts of Arabia dividing us.
The question is will we be able to do this? Will Tajiks and Pashtuns remember their common origin? Will both of them manage to throw off Islam? Will ancient great ritualistic religion be revived?

If all this happens, Afghanistan may be a reality as Arya Vaejo was more in Afghanistan than in Iran, but sadly I do not see any of it happening.As of now, country is set for division due to Tajik linguistic chauvinism and extreme fanaticism of Taliban.

Hope this makes some sense.

Superb. Thanks for the information. That is the ultimate goal - to revive the true identity, to create peace among them and to unite them - the Arya peoples ("Iranics" and Indo-Aryas). The people need to be educated about their heritage. Education is one an important factor - the people need to be informed. I will do my best in this great cause and I expect my fellow Aryas also do the same.
 
Joined Jun 2014
4,516 Posts | 85+
India
Superb. Thanks for the information. That is the ultimate goal - to revive the true identity, to create peace among them and to unite them - the Arya peoples ("Iranics" and Indo-Aryas). The people need to be educated about their heritage. Education is one an important factor - the people need to be informed. I will do my best in this great cause and I expect my fellow Aryas also do the same.

I hope you succeed. Do not forget - A journey of 1000 miles starts with just one step in the beginning.
 
Joined Oct 2012
3,562 Posts | 807+
Z
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Superb. Thanks for the information. That is the ultimate goal - to revive the true identity, to create peace among them and to unite them - the Arya peoples ("Iranics" and Indo-Aryas). The people need to be educated about their heritage. Education is one an important factor - the people need to be informed. I will do my best in this great cause and I expect my fellow Aryas also do the same.

I hate to break this to you, and you may hate me for writing this (it is understandable), but Afghanistan has no real national identity and its current boundaries are simply the result of treaties between the British and Russians during 19th century. The fact is that Afghanistan, like India, is an artificial state consisting of many different nations. People like the Tajiks and Uzbeks were given their own nation-states by the Soviets, but the Balochis and Pasthuns are still stateless nations. Even if most Pashtuns are primitive and backwards, they still have a right to govern themselves and have their own nation-state. Whether they turn their homeland into a heaven or a hell should depend only on themselves; I don't care what they do as long as they do not invade or destabilize other states. They have no obligation to honor an artificial line drawn on the map by the British in 1893.

As for the so-called "Arya" identity, this is an example of what we call a constructed/artificial identity. You are identifying yourself as such only because you have read modern literature (most likely by Western scholars, and if not, definitely based on their findings) and have looked back into history for an "original" identity and national mythology. This is hardly unique to you so do not worry, but you should realize that it is artificial and not based on anything concrete. Most "pan-(insert ethnos)isms" whether it be Pan-Turkism, Pan-Slavism, Pan-Iranism, or whatever are nothing more than futile dreams based on hopeless romanticism. The fact is that modern-day Afghans do not care about their "Arya" identity because it is not relevant to them in any way; it does not define who they are because there is little historical continuity (let alone historical memory) from 3000+ years ago. It is similar to modern "Hindu nationalists" claiming the IVC (now being called "ISC") as a "starting point" for Indian civilization when no Indians even knew about this civilization before 1920s. There is little historical continuity between IVC and modern Indians (IVC most likely was non-Indo-Aryan) and there is certainly no historical memory of this civilization in popular or literary consciousness, as it was unknown before being discovered by Western archaeologists. Yet simply because it is the oldest civilization of South Asia, it is being claimed by all sorts of people (even Pakistanis are now claiming themselves to have a 5,000 year old civilization).
 
Joined Jun 2014
42 Posts | 0+
Aryana (Arya Vaeja) Avestanian Soil
I hate to break this to you, and you may hate me for writing this (it is understandable), but Afghanistan has no real national identity and its current boundaries are simply the result of treaties between the British and Russians during 19th century. The fact is that Afghanistan, like India, is an artificial state consisting of many different nations. People like the Tajiks and Uzbeks were given their own nation-states by the Soviets, but the Balochis and Pasthuns are still stateless nations. Even if most Pashtuns are primitive and backwards, they still have a right to govern themselves and have their own nation-state. Whether they turn their homeland into a heaven or a hell should depend only on themselves; I don't care what they do as long as they do not invade or destabilize other states. They have no obligation to honor an artificial line drawn on the map by the British in 1893.

As for the so-called "Arya" identity, this is an example of what we call a constructed/artificial identity. You are identifying yourself as such only because you have read modern literature (most likely by Western scholars, and if not, definitely based on their findings) and have looked back into history for an "original" identity and national mythology. This is hardly unique to you so do not worry, but you should realize that it is artificial and not based on anything concrete. Most "pan-(insert ethnos)isms" whether it be Pan-Turkism, Pan-Slavism, Pan-Iranism, or whatever are nothing more than futile dreams based on hopeless romanticism. The fact is that modern-day Afghans do not care about their "Arya" identity because it is not relevant to them in any way; it does not define who they are because there is little historical continuity (let alone historical memory) from 3000+ years ago. It is similar to modern "Hindu nationalists" claiming the IVC (now being called "ISC") as a "starting point" for Indian civilization when no Indians even knew about this civilization before 1920s. There is little historical continuity between IVC and modern Indians (IVC most likely was non-Indo-Aryan) and there is certainly no historical memory of this civilization in popular or literary consciousness, as it was unknown before being discovered by Western archaeologists. Yet simply because it is the oldest civilization of South Asia, it is being claimed by all sorts of people (even Pakistanis are now claiming themselves to have a 5,000 year old civilization).

Yes I know Afghanistan is an artificial country. I wasn't intending to base Aryana/Arya Vaeja on present artificial borders. If we get a chance to remake our borders, it would only be where all Arya "Iranic" people are located - nothing more, nothing less. It is great that non-Arya people like the Europeans and other people have also studied, researched and added information to our heritage - appreciate that. I understand what you're saying but we have our own people, own books and own intelligentsia - just because some Western people also researched the same thing doesn't mean that our heritage is based on their findings thus we are trying to associate ourselves with something that the west has found. No that is incorrect. In Afghanistan for example, people already have the surname "Arya" and already know that the original name of their country is Aryana which is mentioned in the Avesta. We practice many of the ancient Zoroastrian practices in Afghanistan today - for example the "Spand" ritual is practiced to keep away the "evil eye". Many ancient peoples have also written about us Aryas - like the ancient Greeks - for example: Strabo, in his "Geography", mentions the unity of Medes, Persians, Bactrians and Sogdians:

"The name of Ariana is further extended to a part of Persia and of Media, as also to the Bactrians and Sogdians on the north; for these speak approximately the same language, with but slight variations." - Geography, 15.8.

Also Herodotus in his Histories remarks about the Medes that: "These Medes were called anciently by all people Arians; " (7.62). Eudemus of Rhodes apud Damascius (Dubitationes et solutiones in Platonis Parmenidem 125 bis) refers to "the Magi and all those of Iranian (áreion) lineage"; Diodorus Siculus (1.94.2) considers Zoroaster (Zathraustēs) as one of the Arianoi.

Read this: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples"]Iranian peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Ancient peoples also wrote about us - does that mean that the ancient Aryas were also living under an artificial identity? No.

Majority of the people in Afghanistan are extremely undereducated due to the fact that we were invaded by several empires and have gone through many wars - even till today - so in this case many people have forgotten lots of their original identity but we will solve this problem. We have been subjugated by the Arabs, Mongols and Turks for a long time. Just because we were subjugated - doesn't mean we will give away our original Arya identity for the imposed nonsensical "Muslim" (has no ethnic meaning), "Afghan" or "Tajik" identity. We have the right to continue our original culture, religion, language and other inherited qualities. Zarathustraism is still alive and we can bring it back to our lands in any way possible. We have everything we need for a full revival. It is for my people - if you are not an Arya "Iranic" then no need to put others down. Maybe you are threatened by this unity or ideology?
 
Joined Jun 2014
4,516 Posts | 85+
India
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Yes I know Afghanistan is an artificial country. I wasn't intending to base Aryana/Arya Vaeja on present artificial borders. If we get a chance to remake our borders, it would only be where all Arya "Iranic" people are located - nothing more, nothing less. It is great that non-Arya people like the Europeans and other people have also studied, researched and added information to our heritage - appreciate that. I understand what you're saying but we have our own people, own books and own intelligentsia - just because some Western people also researched the same thing doesn't mean that our heritage is based on their findings thus we are trying to associate ourselves with something that the west has found. No that is incorrect. In Afghanistan for example, people already have the surname "Arya" and already know that the original name of their country is Aryana which is mentioned in the Avesta. We practice many of the ancient Zoroastrian practices in Afghanistan today - for example the "Spand" ritual is practiced to keep away the "evil eye". Many ancient peoples have also written about us Aryas - like the ancient Greeks - for example: Strabo, in his "Geography", mentions the unity of Medes, Persians, Bactrians and Sogdians:

"The name of Ariana is further extended to a part of Persia and of Media, as also to the Bactrians and Sogdians on the north; for these speak approximately the same language, with but slight variations." - Geography, 15.8.

Also Herodotus in his Histories remarks about the Medes that: "These Medes were called anciently by all people Arians; " (7.62). Eudemus of Rhodes apud Damascius (Dubitationes et solutiones in Platonis Parmenidem 125 bis) refers to "the Magi and all those of Iranian (áreion) lineage"; Diodorus Siculus (1.94.2) considers Zoroaster (Zathraustēs) as one of the Arianoi.

Read this: Iranian peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient peoples also wrote about us - does that mean that the ancient Aryas were also living under an artificial identity? No.

Majority of the people in Afghanistan are extremely undereducated due to the fact that we were invaded by several empires and have gone through many wars - even till today - so in this case many people have forgotten lots of their original identity but we will solve this problem. We have been subjugated by the Arabs, Mongols and Turks for a long time. Just because we were subjugated - doesn't mean we will give away our original Arya identity for the imposed nonsensical "Muslim" (has no ethnic meaning), "Afghan" or "Tajik" identity. We have the right to continue our original culture, religion, language and other inherited qualities. Zarathustraism is still alive and we can bring it back to our lands in any way possible. We have everything we need for a full revival. It is for my people - if you are not an Arya "Iranic" then no need to put others down. Maybe you are threatened by this unity or ideology?
Come on man, heed my advice- a journey of 1000 miles starts with one step.
BTW, Is there any movement for revival of Zoroastrianism there? I have heard one in Tajikistan but not in Afghanistan. I am completely optimistic that Iranian cultural revival will take place as education and internet reaches all strata of these lands.
 
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Yes I know Afghanistan is an artificial country. I wasn't intending to base Aryana/Arya Vaeja on present artificial borders. If we get a chance to remake our borders, it would only be where all Arya "Iranic" people are located - nothing more, nothing less. It is great that non-Arya people like the Europeans and other people have also studied, researched and added information to our heritage - appreciate that. I understand what you're saying but we have our own people, own books and own intelligentsia - just because some Western people also researched the same thing doesn't mean that our heritage is based on their findings thus we are trying to associate ourselves with something that the west has found. No that is incorrect. In Afghanistan for example, people already have the surname "Arya" and already know that the original name of their country is Aryana which is mentioned in the Avesta. We practice many of the ancient Zoroastrian practices in Afghanistan today - for example the "Spand" ritual is practiced to keep away the "evil eye". Many ancient peoples have also written about us Aryas - like the ancient Greeks - for example: Strabo, in his "Geography", mentions the unity of Medes, Persians, Bactrians and Sogdians:

"The name of Ariana is further extended to a part of Persia and of Media, as also to the Bactrians and Sogdians on the north; for these speak approximately the same language, with but slight variations." - Geography, 15.8.

Also Herodotus in his Histories remarks about the Medes that: "These Medes were called anciently by all people Arians; " (7.62). Eudemus of Rhodes apud Damascius (Dubitationes et solutiones in Platonis Parmenidem 125 bis) refers to "the Magi and all those of Iranian (áreion) lineage"; Diodorus Siculus (1.94.2) considers Zoroaster (Zathraustēs) as one of the Arianoi.

Read this: Iranian peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient peoples also wrote about us - does that mean that the ancient Aryas were also living under an artificial identity? No.

Majority of the people in Afghanistan are extremely undereducated due to the fact that we were invaded by several empires and have gone through many wars - even till today - so in this case many people have forgotten lots of their original identity but we will solve this problem. We have been subjugated by the Arabs, Mongols and Turks for a long time. Just because we were subjugated - doesn't mean we will give away our original Arya identity for the imposed nonsensical "Muslim" (has no ethnic meaning), "Afghan" or "Tajik" identity. We have the right to continue our original culture, religion, language and other inherited qualities. Zarathustraism is still alive and we can bring it back to our lands in any way possible. We have everything we need for a full revival. It is for my people - if you are not an Arya "Iranic" then no need to put others down. Maybe you are threatened by this unity or ideology?


Something like an Iranian Identity simply doesn't exist. It exists among the people of Iran like Azaris, Persians or Kurds but not for linguistically "Iranians" like Pashtuns, Ossetians or even Tajiks. Zoroastrianism? This religion is dead since the Arab invasion expect for some thousands Parsis in Indians and no I don't count secular wannabe Zoroastrian Iranians from Europe or America as Zoroastrian. Tajiks and Ossetians are Russified nations, Afghans are totally conservative with a strong Islamic Identity and Iranians are divided between their Shia muslim identity and secularism supporters. Pan-Iranism is BS and nonsense. Oh and very typical for Iranians to blame their misery to Arabs, Turks and Mongols. But aren't you Afghan? Then the Talibans are the only group who are responsible for your countries misery and not they're neither Arabs nor Mongols. In fact they are very closer to your people at least linguistically
 

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