Question about the US-Mexico War of the 19th century

JakeStarkey · Nov 9, 2019

The answer, I believe, is that GB and FR believed the Mexicans could easily handle the US: a country even in the interior with more distance than Canada from US population centers, thus exacerbating a supply line that would be under constant guerilla attacks.

Zip · Nov 9, 2019

JakeStarkey said:
The answer, I believe, is that GB and FR believed the Mexicans could easily handle the US: a country even in the interior with more distance than Canada from US population centers, thus exacerbating a supply line that would be under constant guerilla attacks.

Indeed, the Americans did have considerable problems with attacks on their lines between Vera Cruz and the City of Mexico.

You know, you'd think a fella who can write exacerbating would also write France rather than "FR".;-) Well I assume FR means France.

Barros Serrano · Nov 12, 2019

betgo said:
If you compared the militaries of the two countries, or their populations, areas, GNPs etc., they looked about equal on paper.

Mexico and the USA? They were far from equal in population, industrialization, or military might. The USA had the advantage on all counts.

Dayton Lavon Kitchens · Nov 17, 2019

Jauchart said:
U.S. Grant participated in the Mexican war as a young lieutenant. His account, in his Memoirs, is very interesting.

So did Robert E. Lee and various other future American Civil War commanders. Not to mention future U.S. president Franklin Pierce (though with dubious distinction as he reportedly passed out twice from relatively minor injuries)

Dentatus · Nov 17, 2019

And future Confederate president Jefferson Davis, who raised and commanded a Mississippi volunteer rifle regiment at Monterey and Buena Vista (where he was wounded) under the command of Zachary Taylor (who was also his father-in-law).

johnincornwall · Nov 18, 2019

Code Blue said:
That might depend on who is doing the looking. That's how it would look to me in any year.

Code Blue said:
That doesn't answer my question about where I could read about that; the same way I answered your question about where you could read about neutrality pacts between Polk and Mexican states.

And also, my original point was how Mexico - after being defeated by Texas alone in 1836 - could believe they would win against Texas and 27 of her new friends.
But, you may have a point. People in Europe underestimated the US capabilities since 1776.

I'm afraid you are still classically seeing things in 1776 as they are today with the relative positions of US, Mexico and Britain/Europe (which aren't connected btw).

Code Blue · Nov 18, 2019

johnincornwall said:
I'm afraid you are still classically seeing things in 1776 as they are today with the relative positions of US, Mexico and Britain/Europe (which aren't connected btw).

And I'm afraid you are wrong and it's ot hard to see why. When I ask (now for the third time) - how could anyone think after Mexico lost to Texas alone in 1936, how could anyone think Mexico can win in Texas in 1845 when she has 27 new friends - how can anyone infer it has nothing to do with 1776 or 2019?

martin76 · Nov 18, 2019

Code Blue said:
And I'm afraid you are wrong and it's ot hard to see why. When I ask (now for the third time) - how could anyone think after Mexico lost to Texas alone in 1936, how could anyone think Mexico can win in Texas in 1845 when she has 27 new friends - how can anyone infer it has nothing to do with 1776 or 2019?

Mexico was as powerul (if not more) as US in 1845.... when Mexico fought both against rebels in Texas as in USA... Mexico was in a Civil War. Texas in 1836 for Mexico was a Civil War too.. similar to South Carolina for USA in 1861.

Code Blue · Nov 18, 2019

martin76 said:
Mexico was as powerul (if not more) as US in 1845....

Evidence? The outcome of the war? The way the held off the French in the 1850s? The next 100 years?

You probably shouldn't bother trying to substantiate. I am only going to pick holes in it anyway.

Pruitt · Nov 18, 2019

Mexican politics did not allow them to back down to the US. Mexico recognized the Nueces River as the boundary. Texas and the US claimed the Rio Grande. The US Army proceeded to march up to the Rio Grande in the disputed area. The Mexican Army decided to attack the American troops there. Unfortunately, the Mexican Army had arms and uniforms they bought from the British who used them in the Napoleonic Wars. Many of the American Volunteers had modern firearms that had rifling and percussion locks (caps). The American Artillery also was more modern and used tactics still in vogue in the ACW.

By the way, if one went by the Texas claim, Albuquerque and Santa Fe would have been in Texas...

Pruitt

Futurist · Nov 18, 2019

Guevarist Mayan said:
Why didn't Mexico request, or get, aid from any other great power like Britain or France during the US-Mexico War of the 1840s?

Well, what exactly would be in it for them? Was the question of whether the US or Mexico controlled the Southwest genuinely vital to any European powers?

martin76 · Nov 19, 2019

Code Blue said:
Evidence? The outcome of the war? The way the held off the French in the 1850s? The next 100 years?

You probably shouldn't bother trying to substantiate. I am only going to pick holes in it anyway.

Humbold maybe? Outcome of the war means nothing... USA lost the War in Vietnam, Cambodja... that means Vietnam is stronger than USA?
Mexico was in a civil war in 1845.... not only fighting USA!

Yes.. Mexico defeated French Army (the army was seen as the best army in the world in 1859).. Have you ever listen the word Puebla? You should....there Mexican crushed French Army.. their zouaves, their Foreing legion etc etc

It if funny.. they won in Solferino, Marengo, Argelie... Madagascar...Crimea.... but no way in MEXICO....Mexico.. Mexico...

Mexican taking French Flag in Puebla...

Pruitt · Nov 19, 2019

The US lost a war in Cambodia? I don't think so. There are still a lot of old Vietnam Vets that insist that THEY did not lose a war in Vietnam! They will tell you the South Vietnamese lost a Civil War after we left.

Pruitt

martin76 · Nov 19, 2019

Pruitt said:
The US lost a war in Cambodia? I don't think so. There are still a lot of old Vietnam Vets that insist that THEY did not lose a war in Vietnam! They will tell you the South Vietnamese lost a Civil War after we left.

Pruitt

And they are right... as USSR didn´t lost any war in Afghanistan.. nor Spain in Cuba nor France in Algerie or UK in Yemen....but finally.... they didn´t achive their goals....

Zip · Nov 19, 2019

Pruitt said:
By the way, if one went by the Texas claim, Albuquerque and Santa Fe would have been in Texas...
Pruitt

Thus the disastrous Texian expedition to capture Santa Fe.

Troy wienerdog · Nov 19, 2019

Pruitt said:
Mexican politics did not allow them to back down to the US. Mexico recognized the Nueces River as the boundary. Texas and the US claimed the Rio Grande. The US Army proceeded to march up to the Rio Grande in the disputed area. The Mexican Army decided to attack the American troops there. Unfortunately, the Mexican Army had arms and uniforms they bought from the British who used them in the Napoleonic Wars. Many of the American Volunteers had modern firearms that had rifling and percussion locks (caps). The American Artillery also was more modern and used tactics still in vogue in the ACW.

By the way, if one went by the Texas claim, Albuquerque and Santa Fe would have been in Texas...

Pruitt

Yes we really screwed up by giving that up.

Code Blue · Nov 20, 2019

martin76 said:
Outcome of the war means nothing

Perhaps in a certain context, but in common sense the outcome of the war and the course of the war means everything.

martin76 said:
USA lost the War in Vietnam, Cambodja... that means Vietnam is stronger than USA?

You call this "evidence" of Mexican military might in 1845?

And, the US lost? When did the NVA occupy Washington and set up a military government, and when did the US surrender half its territory for $30 million - ala Mexico 1848?

martin76 said:
Mexico defeated French Army (the army was seen as the best army in the world in 1859).

In 1859. That's "evidence" of 1845?

BTW, when I asked for evidence of Mexico's 1845 military juggernaut, I did NOT ask about 1968 or 1859. Normally, evidence would incoude inventoring of more and superior weaponry, better troops, better generals, etc. Or how the Mexico version of West Point was cranking out officers better trained in the smithy of warfare than their counterparts from the North.

Code Blue · Nov 20, 2019

Pruitt said:
Mexican politics did not allow them to back down to the US. Mexico recognized the Nueces River as the boundary. Texas and the US claimed the Rio Grande. The US Army proceeded to march up to the Rio Grande in the disputed area.

Actually the entirety of Texas, as described the 1836 agreement. is the "disputed area," not just the land between the rivers.

Code Blue · Nov 20, 2019

martin76 said:
they didn´t achive their goals....

Step one might be recognizing the difference between not achieving a goal in a foreign war and getting conquered as Mexico did 1846-48.

martin76 · Nov 21, 2019

Code Blue said:
Perhaps in a certain context, but in common sense the outcome of the war and the course of the war means everything.

You call this "evidence" of Mexican military might in 1845?

And, the US lost? When did the NVA occupy Washington and set up a military government, and when did the US surrender half its territory for $30 million - ala Mexico 1848?

In 1859. That's "evidence" of 1845?

BTW, when I asked for evidence of Mexico's 1845 military juggernaut, I did NOT ask about 1968 or 1859. Normally, evidence would incoude inventoring of more and superior weaponry, better troops, better generals, etc. Or how the Mexico version of West Point was cranking out officers better trained in the smithy of warfare than their counterparts from the North.

Well, you said about outcomes and you said Mexico was weaker than USA because Mexico lost war... I only said USA Lost the war in Vietnam.... and USA was not weaker...

Well.. about why Mexico lost:

1st: Mexico was not united against a common enemy as ye they were USA
2nd: Mexico fought in endless wars from the independence... USA hadn´t wars from 1815.
3rd: USA was a independent country from 1783... Mexico from 1821.
4th: USA experimented great economic growth .. Mexico experienced a period of continuous crisis due to political instability.
5th: USA was aware of being a new and independent country. Mexico just was independent... and not because they wanted to be... Mexican independence War was lot by the separatis and won by the Royalist... Only when Spain became a Liberal Country (1820)... the Royalist decided to stablish an Absolute Monarchy in New Spain...and a Spanish General became "Emperor of Mexico".... So.. not "Social awareness of being Mexican".... USA just did an agression war in 1845.. only 24 years after independence....as a country organized in 1995 and attacked today.

I did NOT ask about 1968 or 1859

Well you ask when you wrote about French in 1850... not me... and I said Mexico defeated French Army (really better army than US Army) in the war. Different circumstances...you can say French Army fought very far from France... ok.... and what? French Army defeated Chinese Armies in 1860....or Sevastopol in 1855... however... In Mexico everything was wrong...

USA Army managed to overcome very serious difficulties and was a worthy winner ... it was not easy, much less and it could have gone very badly ... but Scott proved to be a better general than Bazaine ... and although I would not say that he was a Hernán Cortés. .. if it is true that he made a brilliant and admirable campaign from the military point of view. A great victory for the USA ... but it was not much a walk nor was "determined" before starting operations.

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Question about the US-Mexico War of the 19th century

JakeStarkey

Zip

Barros Serrano

Dayton Lavon Kitchens

Dentatus

johnincornwall

Code Blue

martin76

Code Blue

Pruitt

Futurist

martin76

Pruitt

martin76

Zip

Troy wienerdog

Code Blue

Code Blue

Code Blue

martin76

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