Slave trade in modern vs. 10th century Ukraine

Dir

Joined Nov 2015
2,358 Posts | 541+
Kyiv
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Some sources about this:....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Ukraine

The last link (wikipedia) gives the figure of 117,000 based on that IOM survey.

- your article in wiki has a remark -

The neutrality of this article needs to be checked.

And for the "IOM report for the figure of 117 000 for Ukrainian prostitutes abroad" it is no link in it.

I tried to find reports of that in IOM dtd Dec 2006. It is that one -

http://www.childcentre.info/projects/traffickin/dbaFile13968.pdf

- and there are no figures for Ukraine at all - no 117 000 - nothing like that. Morever - I see that in Table 4 it is quite another figure of that sort -

Travelled abroad because they
were offered employment, but
upon arrival to a country of
destination their passport was
taken away and they were
forced to work in ... business

Number of
people that
suffered from
this situation
...
Ukraine 15,500

The similar figure for Ukraine is in Table 14 - 15,570

And as you see in the
Chart 61.Prevalence of human trafficking situations

- Ukraine takes the last place among
Moldova Bulgaria Romania Belarus Ukraine - in that line

And this is another report dtd 2007 with interesting information of that sort for Ukrainian women -

It is that one - a UN office on Drugs and Crime

Trafficking in Persons to Europe for Sexual Exploitation

https://www.unodc.org/documents/publications/TiP_Europe_EN_LORES.pdf



As you see in the report - Fig.1 on page 2 - among the women trafficked for sexual exploatation the ones with Ukrainian citizenship take 5 place in that chart - after Romania, Russia, Bulgaria and even small Moldova.

And if to know that quantity of Ukrainian women going to Europe in search of work is at least 10 times more that women from Russia of that kind - it is obvious in which country the most part of women leaving their country for work abroad became prostitutes - and in which country most women choose a very different activity to earn money abroad.

I know that even without this article.

My sister lives more than 10 years in Rome, in Lido di Ostia. She is married to an Italian. And she knows wery vell the situation of the Ukrainians that are working in Italy, and often communicates with some of them.

On my question about Ukrainian prostitutes in Italy she said that prostitution never was the main occupation of Ukrainian women in Italy. Their main profession there is - badante. Care for the elderly and children. In that thing Ukrainian women there have a good reputation, and the majority of guest workers from Ukraine - most of them are women - are engaged in that. There are more thatn 300 thousand of Ukrainians working in Italy. They even created there trade union and publish their own newspaper.

The sister added that prostitution is the main profession of women that come to Italy from Russia to work - despite the fact that Russian women who came to the country to earn money are ten times less than the Ukrainian.

And she knows a number of examples when the women from Russia started as badante, after the first episode, when she earned extra money using her body, immediately changed profession.

It is well-known amont guestarbeiters in Italy - a well-known fact about Russian women. Although the vast majority of foreign prostitutes in Italy are not from Russia - they are Romanians and Nigerians, not Russians.

I think that your idea was to prove that Ukraine is a major source of prostitutes for abroad? I know that very many writers in inet from Russia try to say that. Unfortunately, your version conflicts with the real facts. And at the same time it exposes in a bad light the northern neighbor of Ukraine.
 

Dir

Joined Nov 2015
2,358 Posts | 541+
Kyiv
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Dir,

Here is Ibn Fadlan's description:

Location of Tri Protoka (= Medieval Bolghar) near Astrakhan: Tri Protoka Map - Russia - Mapcarta

Tri_Protoka.png

- I tried with great diligence to understand - what is your topic about? About Ukrainian prostitutes filled modern Europe, about the version of Rus at Fadlan - or of the localization of the capital of Bulgar accotding to Fadlan in the area of the present Astrakhan?

I tried to fing the right answer though all three components of your breakneck logic design are very debatable
 
Joined Nov 2010
14,406 Posts | 4,143+
Cornwall
- I tried with great diligence to understand - what is your topic about? About Ukrainian prostitutes filled modern Europe, about the version of Rus at Fadlan - or of the localization of the capital of Bulgar accotding to Fadlan in the area of the present Astrakhan?

I tried to fing the right answer though all three components of your breakneck logic design are very debatable

I concur.

I've been waiting to chip in about slavic slaves being sold to the Caliphate of Cordoba by the Franks destined for soldiers in the Caliphal armies.

But I'm not sure if I'm talking about prostitutes in the 21st century.

And I'm not shocked
 

Dir

Joined Nov 2015
2,358 Posts | 541+
Kyiv
- I have to say that I was addressed to the Supraorbital message which started the topic.

I have no complaints to the Caliphate of Cordoba at all. And to its slave markets, too.
 
Joined Nov 2010
14,406 Posts | 4,143+
Cornwall
- I have to say that I was addressed to the Supraorbital message which started the topic.

I have no complaints to the Caliphate of Cordoba at all. And to its slave markets, too.

Best leave you two to it then :)
 

Dir

Joined Nov 2015
2,358 Posts | 541+
Kyiv
Last edited:
In his # 24 I meant the phrase under your # 23 -

But I'm not sure if I'm talking about prostitutes in the 21st century.

I have noticed that you did not write about prostitutes and therefore I responded in my #21 to the one who wrote about them here - to Supraorbital. And if someone else would like to join the discussion about Ukrainian prostitutes who supposedly filled Europe - I think Supraorbital will be happy to welcome new participants
 
Joined Jan 2016
364 Posts | 23+
Boland
I read that it was Prague that was the capital for the slave trade. The topic of the book was weather or not the Vikings created the nucleus of the Polish state. Slave trade was a topic and which is why in Latin the Slavs are called what they are from the word "slave".
 
Joined Dec 2013
266 Posts | 9+
Prague, Bohemia
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I read that it was Prague that was the capital for the slave trade. The topic of the book was weather or not the Vikings created the nucleus of the Polish state. Slave trade was a topic and which is why in Latin the Slavs are called what they are from the word "slave".

Indeed it was in the 10th century, in particular during the reigns of Dukes of Bohemia Boleslaus I the Cruel and his son Boleslaus II the Pious; they basically build the state on income from slave trade; they conducted slave raids to Silesia and Galicia to capture the locals and Prague also acted as a market for slaves from as far east as the Khazar state on the Volga river. The route went from Prague to Bavaria and then further west as far as the Caliphate of Córdoba; customs with East Francia were negotiated in the so-called "Inquisitio de theloneis Raffelstettensis" ("Inquisition on the Raffelstetten Customs" in English).

The Bohemian slave raids stopped towards the end of the century as the rise of Poland (Boleslaus the Brave) and Kievan Rus (Vladimir the Great) suddenly caused those areas to not be as easy pickings as they were before (as well as Bohemia being in a deep crisis around the year 1000) and slave trade gradually diminished.

The slavery itself in Bohemia vanishes at some point in 12th century; Cosmas of Prague, a 11th-12th century Bohemian chronicler, mentions that Vladislaus I (reigned 1109 - 1117 and 1120 - 1125) bought out all Christian slaves from Jews and prohibited Jews to take Christians into slavery; after that mentions of it in written sources disappear.
 

Dir

Joined Nov 2015
2,358 Posts | 541+
Kyiv
Last edited:
I read that it was Prague that was the capital for the slave trade. The topic of the book was weather or not the Vikings created the nucleus of the Polish state. Slave trade was a topic and which is why in Latin the Slavs are called what they are from the word "slave".

I think that the Slavs were called in Latin that way because the Slavic own ethnonym - Slavyane - was very similar to the Latin word Sclave. Slave. And it was easy to remember that new ethnonym for Latin speaking people this way.

Otherways you need to find approvals that the Slaves in Europe whem it educated layers started to speak Latin saw Slavs mainly as a Slaves. . It does not seem so from the descriptions of Slaves in Western sources of that time.

As far as I know in the descriptions of the different European authors at the time the Slavs do not look like obedient slaves - but rather as a warlike and freedom-loving people.
 

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