The Rise of Fascism in Europe?

Joined Sep 2011
24,135 Posts | 8+
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Like what I'd said I was giving emphasis on the importance of human life, and I submit that such is a valid argument, especially so that Fascism delves on disrespect of civil rights.

No, abortion is a highly sensitive topic, and to bring it up in the manner you did is offensive and agenda ridden. There is a new thread on such a topic, and there is a older one - plenty of places to discuss such a highly controversial subject. It has no place here.
 
Joined Jan 2012
3,888 Posts | 3+
seychelles
the roots of today's "they tuuk our juubs!" fascism/racism in europe lie after the ww2.
take germany for instance. they were devastated after the war and needed a massive workforce. majorly people from turkey were contracted to work, as unemployment was rampant in and salaries were low in rural areas of turkey (still is though). they worked for long years and been a major help rebuilding the country and meanwhile had families, accommodation etc. basically they established another life there.
after the "german economic miracle" dream is gone, "Türken raus!". yeah, sure. dear fascist groups of germany, you should have thought it beforehand. you should not have imported foreign workforce and done all the work by yourselves, in the first place then. you cannot just exploit people for a decade and kick 'em out.

the same goes for the whole lot, too. denmark, britain, france, sweden etc.
 
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
No, abortion is a highly sensitive topic, and to bring it up in the manner you did is offensive and agenda ridden. There is a new thread on such a topic, and there is a older one - plenty of places to discuss such a highly controversial subject. It has no place here.
I do agree that it is a highly sensitive topic. But its situation as such, does not mean that I should be precluded from mentioning anything in order to amplify my stand in any discussion, like I can mention abortion even in justifying arguments involving economic growth, and so with the issue of Fascism in Europe wherein immigration is part and parcel of the topic for which birth rate and population is a peripheral matter. Prohibition of my arguments of mentioning such relevant issue as I perceive it, which is what you are implying, is the one that is inappropriate because I should be free with the manner I argue the points that I want to discuss, in the same vein that you may argue over your stand on the matters in the herein thread.
 
Joined Apr 2012
925 Posts | 2+
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Greece's national elections just ended, and the neo-nazi part Golden Dawn got 7% of the vote......
And some people on this forum say Greece's neighbors should tone down their military spending because the only one that are profiting is the arm industry. Neighbors of Greece should pump up their military spending. In case of Turkey they don't have to raise their military spending but definitely hold their present military;
 
Joined Nov 2010
4,571 Posts | 770+
Western Eurasia
My argument is on the fact that the immigrants are taking away the jobs of the natives of Europe, and you acknowledge that by saying that the natives are 'also' taking away jobs from each other. Hence, I am right with my premise.

I am not simplifying it, I am just trying to reason out on the basis of that premise that I mentioned.

So it seems that these Turks, Gypsies and Jews that you refer in your statement are not of European descent. It pre-supposes that they are non white people, isn't it?

they are white, or i dont know how much legitimacy does racial anthropological classification have nowadays at all. Balkan Turks and Jews dont differ really from the rest of the local people in physical appearance. Gypsies have typically black hair and browner skin but it is also varied and they are also certainly not ......., Mongoloid or Australid. The usual hatred in Eastern Europe and the Balkans is rather based on ethnic or ethno-religious lines, at least in the former socialist countries.
 
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
they are white, or i dont know how much legitimacy does racial anthropological classification have nowadays at all.
Alright :) and I don't wanna tax you for giving details about that to me. Thank you.

Balkan Turks and Jews dont differ really from the rest of the local people in physical appearance. Gypsies have typically black hair and browner skin but it is also varied and they are also certainly not ......., Mongoloid or Australid. The usual hatred in Eastern Europe and the Balkans is rather based on ethnic or ethno-religious lines, at least in the former socialist countries.
I suddenly got confused, and again I appreciate your efforts to explain that to me. Thank you too.

Gypsy women by the way is adorable and lovely. Is there anyone who is like that in the forum?
 
Joined Nov 2010
1,982 Posts | 607+
Bordeaux
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No one can blame the white Europeans from turning into a seemingly Fascist style of politics or the so called neo-Nazism. The immigrants are grabbing jobs from them because of relatively cheaper labor and they are more willing to perform blue collar job which makes them more versatile and have the better chance in terms of survivability.

People's anger is focused on the wrong culprit.

They blame immigrants for taking jobs, but thet never ever wonder about companies which offer those jobs to immigrants so that they can pay them less than nationals, and use them as a means to put overall pressure on wages.

People also forget that many low-pay jobs aren't taken by nationals because they rightly consider the pay to be too low, therefore leaving such jobs to immigrants who can be more willing to take them in spite of low wages.

They are also forgetting that, in many cases, the country of origin of these immigrants are in a state of under-development because of the actions of Western countries and corporations, who are shamelessly exploiting resources with little benefit to local populations, often with the help of corrupt authoritarian governments, supported by Western powers which secure profitable "deals" with the latter and at the same time, advocate values such as "freedom" and other smoke-screen type dialectics to portray themselves as angels for the same gullible citizens who blame immigrants for their troubles.

But of course, it is always a lot easier to focus on the result than the causes. Simplistic reasoning is reassuring and requires little intellectual effort. This is how the masses are manipulated.
 
Joined Aug 2011
263 Posts | 0+
Montreal, Canada
People's anger is focused on the wrong culprit.

They blame immigrants for taking jobs, but thet never ever wonder about companies which offer those jobs to immigrants so that they can pay them less than nationals, and use them as a means to put overall pressure on wages.

People also forget that many low-pay jobs aren't taken by nationals because they rightly consider the pay to be too low, therefore leaving such jobs to immigrants who can be more willing to take them in spite of low wages.

They are also forgetting that, in many cases, the country of origin of these immigrants are in a state of under-development because of the actions of Western countries and corporations, who are shamelessly exploiting resources with little benefit to local populations, often with the help of corrupt authoritarian governments, supported by Western powers which secure profitable "deals" with the latter and at the same time, advocate values such as "freedom" and other smoke-screen type dialectics to portray themselves as angels for the same gullible citizens who blame immigrants for their troubles.

But of course, it is always a lot easier to focus on the result than the causes. Simplistic reasoning is reassuring and requires little intellectual effort. This is how the masses are manipulated.

Spot on.
 
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
^Thank you Frog33inUK, for expounding more on the pivotal issues that covers the hub of the whole matter involving the possible rise of Fascist or neo-Nazi Europe, which brushes immigration and its realities.
 
Joined Dec 2011
214 Posts | 0+
Quebec
Greece's national elections just ended, and the neo-nazi part Golden Dawn got 7% of the vote, more than double the minimum needed to enter parliament. The biggest party only has slightly more than double that amount.

France's Le Pen got a sizeable chunk of the vote in the first round of elections, and Geert Wilders's party in the Netherlands managed to bring the government down.

Are we potentially witnessing the comeback of the far-right in Europe?

This is happenning all over Europe. I heard similar things in Hungary, Austria and Netherlands (the government collapsed). We are currently witnessing the downfall (again since WW1) of Europe.

But hey thats just my opinion. Maybe Francois Hollande will solve the europeen crisis.
 
Joined Aug 2011
263 Posts | 0+
Montreal, Canada
I agree that the current far-right groups in Europe might not be fascist by definition, but often times extremist political groups will temporarily tone down virulent ideologies to portray themselves as more mainstream, in order to gain a base of support.

I'm not saying that the continent is about to be smothered in Nazi jackboots, but it's undeniable that there is a growing trend of anti-immigrant, racist and ultranationalist ideas gaining popular acceptance in mainstream political discourse. This kind of thing can feed the extreme left as well. We already saw this in the 1920s.
 
Joined Dec 2011
214 Posts | 0+
Quebec
Ahem, even with the best intentions in the world, I doubt a single man could impose any "reasonable" views on the whole world... :)

Who knows? The French people choosed him because they think he is the most competent of all the others candidates even tho Sarkozy wasn't that bad.
 
Joined Nov 2010
1,982 Posts | 607+
Bordeaux
Who knows? The French people choosed him because they think he is the most competent of all the others candidates even tho Sarkozy wasn't that bad.

Things are not as straightforward...
But this is current politics = verboten !!!
 
Joined Apr 2012
925 Posts | 2+
I'm glad Sarkozy has gone. He was very bad for France and for Europe. The important part is that the people have chosen.
 
Joined Jan 2012
795 Posts | 3+
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Greece's national elections just ended, and the neo-nazi part Golden Dawn got 7% of the vote, more than double the minimum needed to enter parliament. The biggest party only has slightly more than double that amount.

Are we potentially witnessing the comeback of the far-right in Europe?

[the analysis in terms left, right, center etc is, in my opinion, a trap.
you have to analyse each part and understands the reason made it.
unfortunately this is a status, a simplification, as also a reason for not specific analysis. so here i will follow the terms but dont agrree as also.]

So, if you want to know some of the specific reasons that Golden Dawn got 7% of the vote, is because in many neighborhoods, in recent years has installed a large number of illegal immigrants [mainly from Asia and Africa] who enter from Turkey to Greece, and who while trying to reach other European countries will not do, but also where these were in European countries, the european authorities when found them send them back to back to first country of entry into the European Union, in this case the GREECE, where these illegal immigrants not having paper examines with illegal market and activities such as , drugs, prostitution but also looting , stealing and killing .
The violence has gotten rampant, Greeks [as also other foreigners] have been robbed and murdered in cold blood, the police can not control the situation, and the far-right Golden Dawn, organizing patrols and protecting the citizens of specific regions/neighborhoods.
In reciprocation citizens unprotected by the state and despite the continuous bleeding from unjust taxes required by the economic policy does nothing contributory in this particular election, so the far right wing, received the vote as gratitude of the specific citizens.

The rise of the far right connected with the causes that created the phenomenon, and 2 of them are uncontrolled illegal immigration which comes through the Turkish Republic, and the deformation of the state from the 2 major political parties that led GREECE the last 30 years with the corrupt clientelism, the theft and waste of public money by them and the complete absence of protection of civilians, however, relates to and from the central European complete wrong intemperate choice of austerity which has so far 2000 Greek citizens forced to commit suicide.

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Greece's national elections just ended, and the neo-nazi part Golden Dawn got 7% of the vote......

And some people on this forum say Greece's neighbors should tone down their military spending because the only one that are profiting is the arm industry. Neighbors of Greece should pump up their military spending. In case of Turkey they don't have to raise their military spending but definitely hold their present military;

one of the main reasons that the far right goes up in Greece, as i descibed, is the illegal immigrants phenomenon that comes from Turkey, and its derivatives.

so then if in next Greek elections the far right takes double per cent votes i suppose that under your thoughts, the republic of Turkey should double the military spending.

i see fear, for a country like Greece that has only 10 million people, that they have common traditions , looking, and blood with the majority of the people of the republic of Turkey.

if you want to stint/eliminate 'far right' parts or practices, you have to eliminate the reasons made them exist.

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excuse my english.
 
Joined Dec 2011
4,129 Posts | 8+
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay

Macro, with all respect yes. No matter our past and background, we're more or less similar to each other in the outlooking. Italians, Greeks, Albanians and to a certain extend Turks have the same genetic background. Our (Greece and Turkey) most common ancestors are the neolithic farmers who lived in Greece and Anatolia 8000 years ago. It doesn't matter if the Greek cultural ancestors were initially IE Mycenaean people and yours were Turkic tribes, since the majority of the people living in our countries were different than our cultural ancestors. Of course, in Turkey there's diversity due to the size of the country, but still a huge percentage of us have the same ancestors, who were neither Greeks nor Turks, but native inhabitants of the area (pre-Greek, pre-Turkic, pre-Hittite, pre-whatever).

Please, do a research on the above nations genetic ancestors to confirm my sayings.
 
Joined Jan 2012
795 Posts | 3+
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in every country there exceptions, do u think that greeks are like this ... ?

i have gone my friend many times to Republic of Turkey on past , thanks god and i have a very good relations with realy friendly people who are exact, in behaviour, eatting food [except those islam not accept] and listen traditional and modern style same music, looking in face as greeks . thats why i am sure. [there also dna and other research as also history events that i have described to other threads about the turcification, that proved this, but the bigger proof is when with your eyes see this if u go live and speak with the people]

ofcourse in any place there some exceptions, it is unfair to give me that shame example of the ... , and very offensive for me and the 99% of Greeks. if u come in greece also u see that people are not like it.

i always reffer for the big majority of people.
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but we have gone out of the threads subject.

so i reapeat, that :

i see fear, for a country like Greece that has only 10 million people, that they have common traditions , looking, and blood with the majority of the people of the republic of Turkey.

one of the main reasons that the far right goes up in Greece, as i descibed, is the illegal immigrants phenomenon that comes from Turkey, and its derivatives.

if you want to stint/eliminate 'far right' parts or practices, you have to eliminate the reasons made them exist.

=============================
excuse my english.
 

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