Vagbhata, the Indian medical scientist

Joined Nov 2013
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Texas
The wikipedia article on Vaghbata seems lacking.

For those who don't know, Vaghbata is the third most notable Indian scholar (After Sushruta, the surgeon, and Charaka, who did some research in a few fields of medical science such as embryology), who may have lived around the 6th century AD.


Could anybody tell the forum what his most notable contributions were and why he is regarded as the third most notable Indian scholar in all of Indian history? Is it just because he's the third oldest?
 
Joined Jun 2014
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New Delhi, India
Last edited:
I cannot help much except mentioning the correct way to write his name or pronounce it will be 'Vāga-bhatta'. :eek:
 
Joined Aug 2014
5,549 Posts | 582+
India
i cant say anything except saying he wrote Ashtangahridaya and Ashtangasamgraha. It may be true that he is considered 3rd best necause he was oldest. Other writers like Kashyapa's Compendium belongs to 7th century and Sharnagadhara Samhita belongs to 14th century.
 
Joined Sep 2015
451 Posts | 41+
Sri Lanka
ACHARYA VAGBHATA!
There were three Great Treatises on Ayurveda before 700AD and "Ashtagarhidaya" was most famous and comprehensive of all .Although the Medical Fraternity is split and has lot of reservation about its efficacy . In Eighties Ayurvedic Medicine became famous when it was Spearheaded by Dr. Deepak Chopra and his followers in Hollywood ! Generally speaking various kind of Meditation techniques in Yoga and Tantra Etc are becoming popular and as part of Holistic Health care!
1-Charaka -samhita--Deals With Internal Medicine

2-Sushruta-Samhita---Deals with Surgical Subjects

3 ASHTANGASANGRAHA was compiled and codified as the sum and essence of Charaka and Sushruta samitas and additional treatises in 6 other specialities of Medicine Eg ENT Paediatrics[child care]Immunology Etc the by Acharya Vagbatta around 600 AD and this was later and updated and simplified as ASHTAGARHIDAYA-Apprantly By Vagbatta ii [may be a descendent of Acharya Vagabatta]around 7th AD
[ Ashta-8/ Anga -Branches/Sangraha=Compliation or collection?]

Yep---Sarngadhara-Samhita -was written around 1300--1400 AD
 
Joined Sep 2015
451 Posts | 41+
Sri Lanka
Ayurvedic medicine and western medicine

Piccolo already knows that much from Wikipedia. :)

Vagbhata was never regarded as the 3rd most notable scholar in medicine in India--I don't know whether he was referring to the the The Three Great Triads of Sushruta, Charaka,and vagbhat samitas and 3 other minor Triads[Treatises]

He was the third in the Major Trios----His contribution is laying the foundation of entire spectrum of underlying Pathology of diseases in Ayurveda which is in contrast to western medicineSusequent samitas talk about Diagnosis,Prognosis and Thrapeutics[medication and therapy Etc]
However he was not called the Father of Ayurveda :(

Please let me know if you want more clarification on behalf of Piccolo :)
 
Joined Mar 2019
1,811 Posts | 447+
KL
at rum article in wikipedia i recently added a reference to vagbhatta who describes rum drink and prescribes it to his patient, oldest reference yet on rum from vagbhatta.
 
Joined Mar 2013
15,541 Posts | 714+
India
at rum article in wikipedia i recently added a reference to vagbhatta who describes rum drink and prescribes it to his patient, oldest reference yet on rum from vagbhatta.
Really? Is he describing the alcohol made from molasses (which was pioneered in India IIRC) or does he actually say Rum? As in a reference to Rome?
 
Joined May 2013
1,848 Posts | 160+
The abode of the lord of the north
at rum article in wikipedia i recently added a reference to vagbhatta who describes rum drink and prescribes it to his patient, oldest reference yet on rum from vagbhatta.
What does he prescribe Rum for? From personal experience, I find it a good remedy for fever and symptoms of common cold.
 
Joined Mar 2019
1,811 Posts | 447+
KL
What does he prescribe Rum for? From personal experience, I find it a good remedy for fever and symptoms of common cold.

it is not mentioned in the book i read why he prescribed rum for, but it just mentions he prescribed rum mixed with mango juice and mead for his patient.
 
Joined Oct 2015
1,528 Posts | 573+
India
The wikipedia article on Vaghbata seems lacking.

For those who don't know, Vaghbata is the third most notable Indian scholar (After Sushruta, the surgeon, and Charaka, who did some research in a few fields of medical science such as embryology), who may have lived around the 6th century AD.


Could anybody tell the forum what his most notable contributions were and why he is regarded as the third most notable Indian scholar in all of Indian history? Is it just because he's the third oldest?

A free translation of his work(s) into English is/are not available.

Some articles on his contribution and/or principles. You may like to go thru.

Vagabhata's Contributions (26 pages)
http://www.ccras.nic.in/sites/default/files/viewpdf/jimh/JIMH_2009/111 to 136.pdf

Summary of Principles taught by Vagabhata (6 pages)
http://www.ayurpharm.com/phocadownload/ayurpharm392.pdf

Book REview of 'Legacy of Vagbhata by MS Valiathan' (2 pages)
(PDF) ‘Legacy of Vagbhata’ by M. S. Valiathan | Academic Article

Notes on Three Classic and Three Minor Classics on Ayurveda (1 webpage)
The Ancient Ayurvedic Writings

I seen about Yogasana that it is commercialized in the west. One is that original sources are not acknowledged. Bigger problem is that sometimes it is no more the traditional thing it was and is likely to cause more harm than good.
 
Joined Jun 2014
8,371 Posts | 1,168+
New Delhi, India
What does he prescribe Rum for? From personal experience, I find it a good remedy for fever and symptoms of common cold.
Yeah, Indians made many kinds of liquors (Asavas). Drakshasava is a preparation from raisins. Of course, it contains many other ingredients also.

iu
 
Joined May 2013
1,848 Posts | 160+
The abode of the lord of the north
Yeah, Indians made many kinds of liquors (Asavas). Drakshasava is a preparation from raisins. Of course, it contains many other ingredients also.

iu
Asava is more closely related to wine. Rum is more raw.
 
Joined Oct 2015
1,528 Posts | 573+
India
This new subject is turning out to be more interesting than the original.

What are the names / sources of Indian alcoholic beverages? Pre-modern ones - before arrival of the Europeans. Are there some good sources on them?
 
Joined May 2013
1,848 Posts | 160+
The abode of the lord of the north
This new subject is turning out to be more interesting than the original.

What are the names / sources of Indian alcoholic beverages? Pre-modern ones - before arrival of the Europeans. Are there some good sources on them?
Is soma alcohol?

I love the taste of Asava nevertheless ;)
 
Joined Oct 2015
1,528 Posts | 573+
India
Soma (Sanskrit) or Haoma (Zoroastrian) is not alcohol based. It was/is the juice of a plant - from its leaves, twigs etc - which was extracted by grinding them with water. There is no mention of fermentation (which generates alcohol) in preparation of Soma drink.

Several plants contain psychoactive substances.

One example is Bhang plant the use of which is ancient. Its common name in English is cannabis plant, while scientific name is Cannabis sativa. I think the drug is contained in the flowers, buds & leaves near them. It can be used a drink (occasionally used in India during Holi festival), smoked, etc. Products are called bhang, hashish, marihuana are produced from the plant. [2]


Another example is Afeem plant. Its common name in English is Poppy while scientific name is Papaver somniferum. A cut is made in the pod which has grown, milk/latex flows out, which is collected. This milk contains the psychoactive substance which is extracted. Products are called morphine and then as heroine. [1]

The above plants do not contain any alcohol.

Identification psychoactive substance of Soma plant as Ephedrine:

Soma juice is / was also a plant-based drink which contained psychoactive substances like the two cited above.

We have two tips on its identification which equate it with a plant of ephedra family.

"In 1989 Harry Falk noted that, in the texts, both haoma and soma were said to enhance alertness and awareness, did not coincide with the consciousness altering effects of an entheogen, and that "there is nothing shamanistic or visionary either in early Vedic or in Old Iranian texts", (Falk, 1989) Falk also asserted that the three varieties of ephedra that yield ephedrine (Ephedra gerardiana, E. major procera and E. intermedia) also have the properties attributed to haoma by the texts of the Avesta. (Falk, 1989) At the conclusion of the 1999 Haoma-Soma workshop in Leiden, Jan E. M. Houben writes: "despite strong attempts to do away with ephedra by those who are eager to see sauma[sic] as a hallucinogen, its status as a serious candidate for the Rigvedic Soma and Avestan Haoma still stands" (Houben, 2003)." [4]

In other words, there are three plant species of Ephedra plant genus which yield Ephedrine.

One: Practice of Indian Zoroastrians [3]:

"In the late 19th century, the highly conservative Zoroastrians of Yazd (Iran) were found to use genus Ephedra, which was locally known as hum or homa and which they exported to the Indian Zoroastrians. (Aitchison, 1888) The plant, as Falk also established, requires a cool and dry climate, i.e. it does not grow in India (which is either too hot or too humid or both) but thrives in central Asia. Later, it was discovered that a number of Iranian languages and Persian dialects have hom or similar terms as the local name for some variant of Ephedra. Considered together, the linguistic and ritual evidence appeared to conclusively establish that haoma was some variant of Ephedra." [3]

Two: Archaeological support:

In 1994, Viktor Sarianidi claimed that ancient ritual objects found at BMAC archeological sites in Central Asia bore traces of Ephedra stalks and Papaver (poppy) seeds. In 1995, Harri Nyberg investigated the specimens provided by Sarianidi but could not confirm the claim. Another site provided material which Sarianidi had declared contained traces of Ephedra, papaver and hemp (Cannabis) in 1998–1999. It was analysed in 2002–2003 by three independent teams, but they found no traces of the claimed contents. [5]

So archaeological evidence for identification is weak.

Rajesh Kochhar in his book "Vedic People' devotes one chapter to identification of Soma which is the best discussion I have read on the subject. I am feeling lazy now to take out the book, but memory is that he also agrees with Ephedra genus and Ephedrine as the psychoactive substance in Soma drink.

If you want to taste Soma juice today, may have to look for Parsee friend in Mumbai. That is the only chance.

Reference:

[1] Opium - Wikipedia
[2] Cannabis (drug) - Wikipedia
[3] Haoma - Wikipedia
[4] Soma (drink) - Wikipedia
[5] Botanical identity of soma–haoma - Wikipedia
 

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