Vote: Greatest Middle Eastern Country

WeisSaul · Mar 31, 2012

Shaheen said:
Wiesaul: Though i dont know much about the 1948 Arab-Israeli war the odds dont look terribly against Israel. If i remember correctly only Jordan had a real army. Israel had roughly 30 000 men at the start. The Arabs roughly 30 to 35 000. This doesn't make the achievement of the Israelis not remarkable but nevertheless not as extremely remarkable as one would believe at first.

1948 Arab

I think that Wikipedia may be a bit off numbers wise. If the numbers had been more fair as it expresses, the Jews probably should have been able to "pull a Turkey" so to speak and take over all of their claimed territories. Also the wiki page clearly states under the Arab-alliance's numbers: "These numbers include only the combat units sent to the former mandate-territory of Palestine, not the entire military strength." So that probably means that the Israeli numbers include non-combat units.

by_the_king · Apr 1, 2012

PERSONNEL

Total Population: 78,785,548 [2011]
Available Manpower: 41,637,773 [2011]
Fit for Service: 35,005,326 [2011]
Of Military Age: 1,370,407 [2011]
Active Military: 612,900 [2011]
Active Reserve: 429,000 [2011]

LAND ARMY

Total Land Weapons: 69,774
Tanks: 4,246 [2011]
APCs / IFVs: 6,592 [2011]
Towed Artillery: 1,838 [2011]
SPGs: 1,419 [2011]
MLRSs: 559 [2011]
Mortars: 7,574 [2011]
AT Weapons: 47,546 [2011]
AA Weapons: 5,547 [2011]
Logistical Vehicles: 24,906

AIR POWER

Total Aircraft: 1,940 [2011]
Helicopters: 874 [2011]
Serviceable Airports: 99 [2011]

LOGISTICAL

Labor Force: 24,730,000 [2011]
Roadway Coverage: 352,046 km
Railway Coverage: 8,691 km

FINANCIAL (USD)

Defense Budget: $25,000,000,000 [2011]
Reserves of Foreign Exchange & Gold: $78,000,000,000 [2011]
Purchasing Power: $960,500,000,000 [2011]

GEOGRAPHIC

Waterways: 1,200 km
Coastline: 7,200 km
Square Land Area: 783,562 km
Shared Border: 2,648 km

NAVAL POWER

Total Navy Ships: 265
Merchant Marine Strength: 645 [2011]
Major Ports & Terminals: 8
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2011]
Destroyers: 0 [2011]
Submarines: 16 [2011]
Frigates: 19 [2011]
Patrol Craft: 108 [2011]
Mine Warfare Craft: 20 [2011]
Amphibious Assault Craft: 55 [2011]

RESOURCES

Oil Production: 52,980 bbl/Day [2011]
Oil Consumption: 579,500 bbl/Day [2011]
Proven Reserves: 262,200,000 bbl/Day [2011]

Partial Sources: US Library of Congress; Central Intelligence Agency

View the 2012 US Military Pay Scale
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Turkey

koseku · Apr 1, 2012

@by_the_king your post was like dot for this thread.

.

WeisSaul · Apr 1, 2012

PERSONNEL

Total Population: 7,473,052 [2011]
Available Manpower: 3,511,190 [2011]
Fit for Service: 2,963,642 [2011]
Of Military Age: 121,722 [2011]
Active Military: 187,000 [2011]
Active Reserve: 565,000 [2011]

LAND ARMY

Total Land Weapons: 12,552
Tanks: 3,230 [2011]
APCs / IFVs: 6,278 [2011]
Towed Artillery: 550 [2011]
SPGs: 706 [2011]
MLRSs: 138 [2011]
Mortars: 750 [2011]
AT Weapons: 900 [2011]
AA Weapons: 200 [2011]
Logistical Vehicles: 7,684

AIR POWER

Total Aircraft: 1,964 [2011]
Helicopters: 689 [2011]
Serviceable Airports: 48 [2011]

RESOURCES

Oil Production: 3,806 bbl/Day [2011]
Oil Consumption: 231,000 bbl/Day [2011]
Proven Reserves: 1,940,000 bbl/Day [2011]

Partial Sources: Central Intelligence Agency

Of course, it's not as if Israel hasn't beaten superpower backed enemies from all sides before. I'm pretty sure Israel could beat Turkey. Israel just signed a military agreement with Greece and Cyprus. Collectively then can blockade all of Turkey's ports, attacking the Turkish economy, and forcing a Turkish surrender.

Mohammed the Persian · Apr 1, 2012

Let's not forget half of Cyprus is de facto Turkish

Gordyman · Apr 1, 2012

In terms of who's more progressive along with better economies it's a tie between: Israel, Turkey, Qatar, and the UAE.

Qymaen · Apr 1, 2012

Gordyman said:
In terms of who's more progressive along with better economies it's a tie between: Israel, Turkey, Qatar, and the UAE.

Qatar has one of the highest GDP per capita out of any nation in the world. Last I checked it was close $120,000 per person.

WeisSaul · Apr 1, 2012

Qymaen said:
Qatar has one of the highest GDP per capita out of any nation in the world. Last I checked it was close $120,000 per person.

Only when you don't average in the 60% of the population that aren't citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

I do like Al Jazeera though. They're pretty fair and balanced on all topics except for Israel and the United States' foreign policy.

koseku · Apr 1, 2012

WeisSaul said:
Of course, it's not as if Israel hasn't beaten superpower backed enemies from all sides before. I'm pretty sure Israel could beat Turkey. Israel just signed a military agreement with Greece and Cyprus. Collectively then can blockade all of Turkey's ports, attacking the Turkish economy, and forcing a Turkish surrender.

oh then Turkey can own Israel with Iran and Azerbaijan and more. I mean Turkey has more friends then Israel at Middle East, Greece has own problems I think they cant join a war agianst us ^^

dagul · Apr 1, 2012

WeisSaul said:
Of course, it's not as if Israel hasn't beaten superpower backed enemies from all sides before. I'm pretty sure Israel could beat Turkey. Israel just signed a military agreement with Greece and Cyprus. Collectively then can blockade all of Turkey's ports, attacking the Turkish economy, and forcing a Turkish surrender.

Plus the fact that Israel is much closer to the US and UK as compared to the relationship of Turkey with those countries, on the basis of interests in the Middle East, so when push comes to shove the economic might and military superiority of those nations will be decisive of any possible conflict between Israel and Turkey.

WeisSaul · Apr 1, 2012

koseku said:
oh then Turkey can own Israel with Iran and Azerbaijan and more. I mean Turkey has more friends then Israel at Middle East, Greece has own problems I think they cant join a war agianst us ^^

Greece has Europe's 4th largest air force, and a lot of great ports and airstrips. It also has a geography that makes guerrilla warfare against any occupiers pretty easy. Plus, despite Greece's problems, nothing unites a country more than a war with your greatest enemy.

The Kurds in Iraq are pretty good friends with the Israelis, and I'm pretty sure that liking Israel extends to the more radical Kurds in Turkey.

Azerbaijan likes Israel more than Turkey. Israel trained Azerbaijan's military, recently purchased an airstrip in Azerbaijan, and has put up radars on the Azeri-Iranian border (What could they possibly be for?

). When Turkey's Prime minister tried to get Azerbaijan to ditch Israel after the flotilla incident, Azerbaijan more or less told him to get lost.

Iran is more or less fighting with Turkey right now over Syria. Why the hell would they help their biggest regional competitor attain near hegemony over the region?

Israel can attack the Turkish economy by blockading and/or occupying all of its ports. Greece, Israel, and Cyprus make it so Adana, Izmir, and Istanbul are just blocked from any sea access. Israel and its regional allies wouldn't have that hard a time defeating a country with a coastline that would be blockaded pretty easily, and is already having the problem of dealing with a Guerrilla war within its own borders.

koseku · Apr 1, 2012

WeisSaul said:
Greece has Europe's 4th largest air force, and a lot of great ports and airstrips. It also has a geography that makes guerrilla warfare against any occupiers pretty easy. Plus, despite Greece's problems, nothing unites a country more than a war with your greatest enemy.

The Kurds in Iraq are pretty good friends with the Israelis, and I'm pretty sure that liking Israel extends to the more radical Kurds in Turkey.

Azerbaijan likes Israel more than Turkey. Israel trained Azerbaijan's military, recently purchased an airstrip in Azerbaijan, and has put up radars on the Azeri-Iranian border (What could they possibly be for?). When Turkey's Prime minister tried to get Azerbaijan to ditch Israel after the flotilla incident, Azerbaijan more or less told him to get lost.

Iran is more or less fighting with Turkey right now over Syria. Why the hell would they help their biggest regional competitor attain near hegemony over the region?

Israel can attack the Turkish economy by blockading and/or occupying all of its ports. Greece, Israel, and Cyprus make it so Adana, Izmir, and Istanbul are just blocked from any sea access. Israel and its regional allies wouldn't have that hard a time defeating a country with a coastline that would be blockaded pretty easily, and is already having the problem of dealing with a Guerrilla war within its own borders.

playing too many pc strategy games... and that sentence made me laugh hard "Azerbaijan likes Israel more than Turkey. Israel trained Azerbaijan's military" thanks

WeisSaul · Apr 1, 2012

koseku said:
playing too many pc strategy games... and that sentence made me laugh hard "Azerbaijan likes Israel more than Turkey. Israel trained Azerbaijan's military" thanks

What's so funny about it?

Afrasiyab · Apr 1, 2012

WeisSaul said:
Israel can attack the Turkish economy by blockading and/or occupying all of its ports. Greece, Israel, and Cyprus make it so Adana, Izmir, and Istanbul are just blocked from any sea access. Israel and its regional allies wouldn't have that hard a time defeating a country with a coastline that would be blockaded pretty easily, and is already having the problem of dealing with a Guerrilla war within its own borders.

What now? Whoever is telling you these strategic palavers has no idea about the geographic location of Turkey and the agreements between Turkey and the EU. How can Cyprus blockade Turkey's southern ports? Northern Cyprus is 'in practice' Turkish. As you imply, the Aegean Sea does not belong to Greece. Turkey can easily navigate in the international waters. The islands that are close to Turkey (The Dodecanese and the Eastern Aegean Islands) can not be armed due to the agreement between Greece and Turkey. How the dickens can any of these counties help the blockade of Istanbul?

I now understand why koseku is laughing.

WeisSaul · Apr 2, 2012

I'm quite sure that in the outbreak of war, the more numerous southern Greek Cypriots can overtake the northern ones, and the Greeks could simply move their forces onto the Dodecanese and Eastern Agean Islands and blockade international waters, you know, considering there would be a war going on.

koseku · Apr 2, 2012

WeisSaul said:
I'm quite sure that in the outbreak of war, the more numerous southern Greek Cypriots can overtake the northern ones, and the Greeks could simply move their forces onto the Dodecanese and Eastern Agean Islands and blockade international waters, you know, considering there would be a war going on.

If we think Turkey has a peaceful politic, but also underattack of terrorists from north iraq, these situations never can happen. Even if Greece and some other countrşes declares war on us, its not so easy to win a country which even has old technology armu by high tech army at the time. I mean do not underestimate Turk power

WeisSaul · Apr 2, 2012

koseku said:
If we think Turkey has a peaceful politic, but also underattack of terrorists from north iraq, these situations never can happen. Even if Greece and some other countrşes declares war on us, its not so easy to win a country which even has old technology armu by high tech army at the time. I mean do not underestimate Turk power

You must remember that Israel has the most technologically advanced military in the region. I'd image that any war between these two sides would start over another one of those so called "freedom flotillas" which Mr. Edrogan declared the Turkish navy would provide escort to Gaza. Israel isn't going to allow people to smuggle weapons into Gaza under the guise of "Freedom".

koseku · Apr 2, 2012

WeisSaul said:
You must remember that Israel has the most technologically advanced military in the region. I'd image that any war between these two sides would start over another one of those so called "freedom flotillas" which Mr. Edrogan declared the Turkish navy would provide escort to Gaza. Israel isn't going to allow people to smuggle weapons into Gaza under the guise of "Freedom".

why would Turkey weaponise them

Actually i dont like arabian people peronally...

The ship was only for help as i know

WeisSaul · Apr 2, 2012

koseku said:
why would Turkey weaponise them Actually i dont like arabian people peronally... The ship was only for help as i know

The "Freedom Flotilla" that Israel raided had weapons on them, and the people on board attacked the IDF soldiers and threw them overboard, prompting the big fight on board that got into the news. Turkey's Prime minister flipped out about it and declared that Israel had no right to do what it did (The UN report said Israel was completely justified) which caused the big split between Israel and Turkey. I blame Mr. Edrogan for the Israel-Turkey split, not the whole country of Turkey.

I personally like Turkey. Turkish food, Turkish beaches, Turkish music, Istanbul, etc.

The Palestinian Arabs are the people who continually drag the conflict out more and more, but the Israeli government has a tendency to react poorly and very aggressively.

I like Israeli food, music, and architecture alot too.

Turkey's PM is pretty threatening though when you consider his rhetoric. Speaking about how mosques are barracks, minarets are bayonets, etc. Then again when you look at Lieberman's commentary...

koseku · Apr 2, 2012

WeisSaul said:
The "Freedom Flotilla" that Israel raided had weapons on them, and the people on board attacked the IDF soldiers and threw them overboard, prompting the big fight on board that got into the news. Turkey's Prime minister flipped out about it and declared that Israel had no right to do what it did (The UN report said Israel was completely justified) which caused the big split between Israel and Turkey. I blame Mr. Edrogan for the Israel-Turkey split, not the whole country of Turkey.

I personally like Turkey. Turkish food, Turkish beaches, Turkish music, Istanbul, etc.

The Palestinian Arabs are the people who continually drag the conflict out more and more, but the Israeli government has a tendency to react poorly and very aggressively.

I like Israeli food, music, and architecture alot too.

Turkey's PM is pretty threatening though when you consider his rhetoric. Speaking about how mosques are barracks, minarets are bayonets, etc. Then again when you look at Lieberman's commentary...

well it wasnt like that at turkish news, it was "israel military attacked turkish flotila which had only support things in it" or something like that. and i dont remember UN said something like that

Vote: Greatest Middle Eastern Country

In your opinion, which is the best/greatest country(ies)?

Bahrain

Egypt

Iraq

Iran

Turkey

Syria

Lebanon

israel

Occupied Palestinian Territories (Gaza & West Bank)

Jordan

Saudi Arabia

Yemen

Oman

United Arab Emirates

Qatar

Kuwait

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