Was Hitler in control of Nazi Germany?

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Archived
Joined Apr 2008
1 Posts | 0+
Hello guys! This is my first post to the forum so i do apologise if this topic is in the wrong section.

I'm doing a project on Hitler for A Level history and my topic is about whether Hitler was in control of Nazi Germany, or was he was just a pawn (or a puppet) controlled by others.

I've been reading about on the internet and have been struggling to find some reliable sources. I was hoping if anybody here could give me some insight. If possible, could you refer me to some reliable sources (i.e. websites, books, articles etc.)

I currently am reading "Hitler: A study in Tyranny" by Alan Bullock and "The last days of hitler" by Trevor Roper. I also have several movies like "Hitlers Secretary", "Downfall" and "The rise of Hitler."

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Joined Apr 2008
209 Posts | 0+
Two sources are by a popular author, William Shirer:
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
The Rise and Fall of Hitler
Shirer writes in a more personal fashion than the typical historian, but it's more understandable considering the topic and time during which he wrote.
 
Joined Apr 2008
20 Posts | 0+
Canada
Short answer: Yes. He was not a puppet controlled by others.
Essential reading includes the work by Ian Kershaw, especially The Hitler Myth, The Nazi Dictatorship, and his two volume biography. Kershaw's biography is mammoth, but surpasses everything else that has been written.
 
Joined Jan 2008
19,014 Posts | 433+
N/A
He had absolute power. At first he was just chancellor. (About like America's Vice President) Then when President Paul Von Hindenburg died he became both chancellor and president of Germany and was awarded dictorial powers.
 
Joined Apr 2008
20 Posts | 0+
Canada
Clarence,
A small correction. Weimar Germany was a parliamentary democracy - the Chancellor was the equivalent of Prime Minister - i.e. head of government. The President was head of state. As with the president of Germany today, this post was largely ceremonial, but in the case of the Weimar Republic, the President did have important emergency powers which gave them more power than today's President. Hitler combined these two offices into the office and position of the Fuehrer.
cheers,
John
 
Joined Feb 2008
275 Posts | 0+
Cincinnati
As Ranke said, the Kershaw biography is a must-read. The Nazi Dictatorship can be a bit of a difficult read, but it will give you a good overview of the differing historical interpretations of Hitler.

Another good book for this topic is The Origins of the Final Solution by Chris Browning. You won't need all the detail on the Holocaust, but it will help with the question of whether or not Hitler personally directed the genocide.

You might also want to take a look at Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer; it's as close as you'll get to an insider's view of how Hitler ran the government.
 
Joined Mar 2008
9,993 Posts | 7+
Damned England
The final decider must be that Nazism of the German kind died with Hitler. Rare indeed for the death of one man to utterly collapse a regime.
 
Joined Oct 2007
130 Posts | 0+
Philadelphia, US
Last edited:
This is my personal opinion as a historian, albeit unbacked by specific research.

It may be a false dilemma to apply such absolutist terms to Hitler, ie, he was either "in control" or "not in control." What is the nature of control? I don't subscribe much to the Great Man school of history, so I'd be willing to argue that nobody, even Hitler, had much control, that the more political influence he garnered, the more predictable and limited in his options he became in any given situation. That is the nature of any authoritarian regime. No matter how powerful the web that you spin, you find yourself caught in the center of it.

"Control" means that Hitler had the ability to end the war in 1943 if he wanted to; I don't think could. "Control" means that Hitler could relax his persecution of minorities if he suddenly felt the need to; I don't think he could do that, either. When you propel yourself and others in a narrowly defined direction for so long and so hard, the result is the death of control.
 
Joined Apr 2008
20 Posts | 0+
Canada
Rob,
I don't subscribe to H. Mommsen's "weak dictator" thesis. Given the unique power structure of the Third Reich, Hitler did ultimately have the last say on policy matters. His decisions (written and unwritten) had the effect of law and they mattered tremendously. Power in the Third Reich was feudal in nature, with many competing power centres vying for control and influence, all ultimately dependent upon Hitler's favour. His function in this scenerio was a supreme arbiter of policy and decision making. As a result his control (power and influence) was considerable.
Having said this, there were also constraints and restraints to his power, especially when it came to implementation. Many people did resist the implementation of policy, but many others were more than willing to assist.
I'm not sure your examples of Hitler's potential to control things are completely valid. Hitler might well have wanted to end the war in 1943, but there were other forces at work beyond his control, e.g. the Allies. He certainly could have relaxed or ended his persecution of minorities had he chosen to. The history of the Holocaust reveals numerous instances of this as persecution ebbed and flowed and policy evolved to meet changing circumstances and priorities. This is especially, but by no means exclusively, the case prior to 1939 in Germany.
Cheers,
John
 
Joined Dec 2013
572 Posts | 2+
Detroit, Mi.
Hello guys! This is my first post to the forum so i do apologise if this topic is in the wrong section.

I'm doing a project on Hitler for A Level history and my topic is about whether Hitler was in control of Nazi Germany, or was he was just a pawn (or a puppet) controlled by others.

I've been reading about on the internet and have been struggling to find some reliable sources. I was hoping if anybody here could give me some insight. If possible, could you refer me to some reliable sources (i.e. websites, books, articles etc.)

I currently am reading "Hitler: A study in Tyranny" by Alan Bullock and "The last days of hitler" by Trevor Roper. I also have several movies like "Hitlers Secretary", "Downfall" and "The rise of Hitler."

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

No offense but if it's for a project I can answer you a short summary....

He was chancellor and made himself Füher (Dictator) claiming full control of Germany. He brainwashes the people and claims all pure Germans will be Aryan with blonde hair blue eyes like him even though he had brown hair brown eyes and is a fourth of jew ...... he then persecutes the Jews sending them to ghettos and later concentration camps where he will inflict massive and inhumane torments upon them. He was a madman and was tried to be assinated several times in his power his own generals tried to kill him. He ended up killing himself and no he was no puppet he'd rather have his enemies shot in the face and be castrated alive before serving someone else so no....I hope that helped :cool:
 
Joined Sep 2013
579 Posts | 6+
Holland
To have "absolute" power, you will always have to make very powerful friends within the realm you wish to control. And those powerful friends will have power over you, for the simple reason that they allow you to be in control.
 
Joined Aug 2012
374 Posts | 2+
To have "absolute" power, you will always have to make very powerful friends within the realm you wish to control. And those powerful friends will have power over you, for the simple reason that they allow you to be in control.

Machiavelli talks about this. In short it depends.

If you are raised to power, like the earlier Popes, or Roman Emperors such as Didius Julianus and Balbinus, yes the nobility does have power over you, since effectively the only reason you have power is because they allow it.

But if you take power, with an army or through popular support, they don't have any power since you have already taken it for yourself. You ARE the most powerful by your own virtue. The presence of your troops and/or popular support only confirms this.
 
Joined Oct 2011
4,468 Posts | 4+
Gwendraeth Valley, Carmarthenshire, Wales.
I find Michael Burleigh's "The Third Reich - A New History" excellent. Most engaging writer, for me, since AJP Taylor. Also I enjoyed RHS Stolfi's "Hitler: Beyond Evil and Tyranny" despite it being somewhat "revisionist".
 
Joined Mar 2008
9,993 Posts | 7+
Damned England
He was chancellor and made himself Füher (Dictator) claiming full control of Germany. He brainwashes the people and claims all pure Germans will be Aryan with blonde hair blue eyes like him even though he had brown hair brown eyes and is a fourth of jew ...... he then persecutes the Jews sending them to ghettos and later concentration camps where he will inflict massive and inhumane torments upon them. He was a madman and was tried to be assinated several times in his power his own generals tried to kill him. He ended up killing himself and no he was no puppet he'd rather have his enemies shot in the face and be castrated alive before serving someone else so no....I hope that helped
- Xenology


I guarantee that any lecturer worth his wages would throw such simplistic views out completely and the OP would fail this project. Such nonsense may appeal to the TV documentary makers, but the real facts are considerably- very, in fact- different.

I don't subscribe much to the Great Man school of history
- Rob Matter

No, neither do I. The "Great Man" idea has regained popularity somewhat of late, not least because of society's generally more authoritarian phase: our rulers want us to think that they're where they are because they're great men.

Hitler and Nazism had a momentum which was ultimately self defeating. It is rare in history for a country to go from abject defeat to very near absolute (in Europe) victory and then back to abject defeat again in a mere couple of decades.

But from the beginning, Nazism presented itself as two rather contradictory things: (a) the preserver of German culture and (b) revolutionary, an overhaul of German society and culture.

Hitler's fall out with Ernst Rohm was just one symptom of Hitler being pressurised by the "revolutionary" aspect and nature of Nazism. When Rohm and some of the SA didn't think he was moving fast enough, and feared that his place within the Government might have a taming effect (which is what Hindenberg and all hoped), this led to the tensions even at the early stage.

Once war had broken out, Hitler gambled and gambled again, but always against the clock. His conquest of Poland was dependent upon his gamble that the British and French would not honour their agreement to aid Poland. His conquest of most of Western Europe was a gamble (although not a very big one) that the USSR would not seize the opportunity at least to grab more of Poland. (Of course, the Soviet-Nazi pact was partially to avoid such confrontations, but Stalin was neither trusting nor trustworthy). The so called "Battle of Britain" and subsequent Blitz in Britain was a mere sideshow to Hitler, who never have it his full attention and hence it was never prosecuted whole heartedly: Hitler also knew that he was bound by time, economics and world politics: in short, Germany was already running out of the material means to wage large scale war and hence must secure more. His economic planners had already told him so. Add to that the pressing need for a fast victory in the east, and the gamble that victory would come before the Russian winter closed in. Plus, Hitler was reasonably sure that the USA would eventually be drawn into the war.

Hence, Hitler was rather better informed that most people believe he was, and at the same time, his actions were less arbitrary than most believed, too. As an aside, the war over Britain had, at least, delayed the attack on the USSR by at least 2 months as losses were made good (although never sufficient) and aircrews replaced.

Had the Wehrmacht stood 18 miles from Moscow a couple of months earlier, history may well have been very different.

By early 1942, even Hitler knew that absolute victory was unlikely. The best he could hope for was to drive a wedge between the Western and Eastern Allies, or inflict such damage upon them that they might strike a peace deal. Many high rankers knew this, too, and fought with the same aims.

In short, Hitler knew that Germany's means did not match her ambitions, although she came close. It is, however, significant that in some of his last writings and conversations, he blamed a lack of ideological strength in the German people and his general in particular one minute, and failed to see that had he left the war to those generals, they may well have succeeded without him. For instance, he failed to provide Rommel with the resources he needed in North Africa, and only chose to send more troops, tanks, planes and supplies after the tide had plainly turned, thus reinforcing failure.

A man who plainly knew the facts but who chose to believe that ideological commitment is a substitute for materiel and men is in no way a great man.

The rest of Hitler's legacy, such as the Holocaust, was surely a result of the way the 3rd Reich operated: he who shows the greatest ideological adherence to Hitler's word is he who goes furthest. Himmler being a case in point.
 
Joined Dec 2013
572 Posts | 2+
Detroit, Mi.
- Xenology


I guarantee that any lecturer worth his wages would throw such simplistic views out completely and the OP would fail this project. Such nonsense may appeal to the TV documentary makers, but the real facts are considerably- very, in fact- different.

- Rob Matter

No, neither do I. The "Great Man" idea has regained popularity somewhat of late, not least because of society's generally more authoritarian phase: our rulers want us to think that they're where they are because they're great men.

Hitler and Nazism had a momentum which was ultimately self defeating. It is rare in history for a country to go from abject defeat to very near absolute (in Europe) victory and then back to abject defeat again in a mere couple of decades.

But from the beginning, Nazism presented itself as two rather contradictory things: (a) the preserver of German culture and (b) revolutionary, an overhaul of German society and culture.

Hitler's fall out with Ernst Rohm was just one symptom of Hitler being pressurised by the "revolutionary" aspect and nature of Nazism. When Rohm and some of the SA didn't think he was moving fast enough, and feared that his place within the Government might have a taming effect (which is what Hindenberg and all hoped), this led to the tensions even at the early stage.

Once war had broken out, Hitler gambled and gambled again, but always against the clock. His conquest of Poland was dependent upon his gamble that the British and French would not honour their agreement to aid Poland. His conquest of most of Western Europe was a gamble (although not a very big one) that the USSR would not seize the opportunity at least to grab more of Poland. (Of course, the Soviet-Nazi pact was partially to avoid such confrontations, but Stalin was neither trusting nor trustworthy). The so called "Battle of Britain" and subsequent Blitz in Britain was a mere sideshow to Hitler, who never have it his full attention and hence it was never prosecuted whole heartedly: Hitler also knew that he was bound by time, economics and world politics: in short, Germany was already running out of the material means to wage large scale war and hence must secure more. His economic planners had already told him so. Add to that the pressing need for a fast victory in the east, and the gamble that victory would come before the Russian winter closed in. Plus, Hitler was reasonably sure that the USA would eventually be drawn into the war.

Hence, Hitler was rather better informed that most people believe he was, and at the same time, his actions were less arbitrary than most believed, too. As an aside, the war over Britain had, at least, delayed the attack on the USSR by at least 2 months as losses were made good (although never sufficient) and aircrews replaced.

Had the Wehrmacht stood 18 miles from Moscow a couple of months earlier, history may well have been very different.

By early 1942, even Hitler knew that absolute victory was unlikely. The best he could hope for was to drive a wedge between the Western and Eastern Allies, or inflict such damage upon them that they might strike a peace deal. Many high rankers knew this, too, and fought with the same aims.

In short, Hitler knew that Germany's means did not match her ambitions, although she came close. It is, however, significant that in some of his last writings and conversations, he blamed a lack of ideological strength in the German people and his general in particular one minute, and failed to see that had he left the war to those generals, they may well have succeeded without him. For instance, he failed to provide Rommel with the resources he needed in North Africa, and only chose to send more troops, tanks, planes and supplies after the tide had plainly turned, thus reinforcing failure.

A man who plainly knew the facts but who chose to believe that ideological commitment is a substitute for materiel and men is in no way a great man.

The rest of Hitler's legacy, such as the Holocaust, was surely a result of the way the 3rd Reich operated: he who shows the greatest ideological adherence to Hitler's word is he who goes furthest. Himmler being a case in point.

So your saying that he didn't brainwash anyone at all....and that he wouldn't have anyone killed if they posed a threat to him or his power as a dictator?
 
Joined Dec 2013
572 Posts | 2+
Detroit, Mi.
Anyways if you truly want to learn more about Hitler for your report or essay I highly suggest you buy the book mein Kampf or read it if someone can lend it to you there are many more books of course but that's theost widely known one.
 
Joined Oct 2011
4,468 Posts | 4+
Gwendraeth Valley, Carmarthenshire, Wales.
Anyways if you truly want to learn more about Hitler for your report or essay I highly suggest you buy the book mein Kampf or read it if someone can lend it to you there are many more books of course but that's theost widely known one.
I believe Black Dog has a very well thumbed copy:)
 
Joined Dec 2013
572 Posts | 2+
Detroit, Mi.
I believe Black Dog has a very well thumbed copy:)

True I'd go to Black Dog for info over anything I didn't really understand for a quick answer instead of going I to intensive research he's very knowledgeable when it comes to history I'm sure he knows more than me haha
 
Joined Jun 2009
29,886 Posts | 49+
land of Califia
The original post is almost 6 years old. I think his paper has been turned in by now.
 
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