Were Elvis and Ali drafted for political reasons?

Ancientgeezer · Apr 2, 2016

Pendennis said:
Ancientgeezer -forgot nothing! -I knew all about Johnson causing a furore in Scottish Masonic circles because I broke the story first way back in 1988 in my single volume history of Scottish boxing published by a leading Scottish publisher.
The Chapter in my book as entitled 'Jack Johnson Dundee Freemason''-I'd love to find out when the guy you quote-Brother Gordon- published the account that he gave and you quoted? what year?
Was it before or after October 1988 when my book was first published? I'd love to know.

No idea. It's the reproduction of a lecture. As the World Wide Web didn't exist until 1991 and Frontpage v.5.0 in which that site was designed until 2002, one would guess that it was after your publication.
Here's the webmaster contact. webmaster@lodge76.co.uk

Code Blue · Apr 3, 2016

Pendennis said:
Code Blue -do stop being pedantic.

I thought it was funny. Former Caucasian?

Who knows, now that there are so many former men and former women, maybe race change operations aren't too far down the road.

Bishop · Apr 3, 2016

I wonder if any Texas based posters can tell me-is there a Jack Johnson memorial/statue in his Galveston, TX, birthplace?

Indeed, the Galveston Giant now has a statue in his birthplace as of 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/u...ute-to-jack-johnson-100-years-later.html?_r=0

Pendennis · Apr 3, 2016

THANKS bISHOP for your Galveston info.

Derek Francis · Apr 7, 2016

Seeing as how at least a million people were chosen, it wouldn't be unlikely for a handful of celebrities to have been drafted.

Alexander the Gay · Feb 14, 2022

OccamsRazor said:
Perhaps the best way to approach this is to see how many other contemporary celebrities were drafted at the same time.

This is one for the American historumites, because I can't think of anyone I've heard of called up in the 1950's/1960's.

Even in WW2, I don't think there were that many celebrities receiving their draft papers. (The only one I can think of was Joe Louis, and he ended up as a poster boy for the Army).

There were hollywood actors like Clark Gable, James Stewart and Audie Murphy in the US army on the frontlines but they were volunteers.

Zip · Feb 14, 2022

Murphy became an actor after the war.

Oldandeasilycofused · Feb 14, 2022

Zip said:
Murphy became an actor after the war.

So they claim. I saw a couple of his movies. Meh.

David Niven (British) held the rank of Lt Colonel and worked for British intelligence. He became a very famous actor after the war. He won the academy award for Best actor in 'Separate Tables' in 1958.

Zip · Feb 14, 2022

Oldandeasilycofused said:
So they claim. I saw a couple of his movies. Meh.

Murphy was very good in John Huston's "The Unforgiven", a western which is kind'a like The Searchers turned inside-out. He plays a bitter and violent Indian hating character on the Texas frontier. The movie is on Amazon Prime and worth watching if only for the outstanding cast---Murphy, Burt Lancaster, Audrey Hepburn, Joseph Wiseman, John Saxon, Charles Bickford and LILIAN GISH!

Pruitt · Feb 15, 2022

The funny part is Audie is part Indian! I don't know what tribe. While he reminded many of an Irishman, his sister looked Indian. There were a number of Murphy children. His first wife was Indian and a nurse. He never got over WWII and slept with a loaded 1911 under his pillow!

Pruitt

Oldandeasilycofused · Feb 15, 2022

2 Cents

Probably not unrealistic to think the establishment wanted to get Ali.

Elvis is a horse of a different colour. A very conservative man who from memory I think met Nixon and received a special badge from J Edgar. Elvis didn't like commies either.

Just checked. Seems he didn't meet Hoover. Elvis certainly didn't dress to go unnoticed.

.

Pruitt · Feb 15, 2022

One of Ali's grandsons looks like his Italian Father's side. Last I heard he was playing football at Ali did not like White Racists, but he was very fond of White females that were friendly to him. He made jokes about it to his Nation of Islam friends. Ali's wife did not like all the White women he was seeing.

Pruitt

Alexander the Gay · Feb 15, 2022

Pruitt said:
One of Ali's grandsons looks like his Italian Father's side. Last I heard he was playing football at Ali did not like White Racists, but he was very fond of White females that were friendly to him. He made jokes about it to his Nation of Islam friends. Ali's wife did not like all the White women he was seeing.

Pruitt

i thought he was interracial dating anf marriage

Dan Howard · Feb 15, 2022

TotalAaron said:
Sounds like it was just their turn, the draft was compulsory you know

This is probably correct for Elvis but I'm not sure about Ali. Considering the total population in the US at the time and the specified age cohort (18-24), the odds of a person being drafted were only around 5%. So if the draft was truly random, there was a 95% chance of not being selected.

Consider this: the percentage of the US population that was black at the time was around 11% but they made up 16% of those who were drafted and 23% of all Vietnam combat troops. If the draft were truly random, one would expect only 11% of the drafted soldiers to be black.

Zip · Feb 15, 2022

I'm going by memory but I thought Ali was drafted before the lottery.

Dan Howard · Feb 15, 2022

An argument can be made that they used the war to get rid of undesirables. Around 75% of the soldiers in Vietnam were from lower socio-economic groups but these groups formed less than 25% of the US population at the time.

Zip · Feb 15, 2022

Dan Howard said:
An argument can be made that they used the war to get rid of undesirables. Around 75% of the soldiers in Vietnam were from lower socio-economic groups but these groups formed less than 25% of the US population at the time.

I think it was an intention to use "undesired" people not to get rid of them. That originally deferments were given to men who attended college or were married worked against certain demographic groups and saw them overrepresented in both the armed forces and in combat.

Dan Howard · Feb 15, 2022

Zip said:
I think it was an intention to use "undesired" people not to get rid of them.

By "get rid" I meant to remove them from US society, not to kill them. These days the US puts them in prison.

Alexander the Gay · Feb 15, 2022

Alexander the ... said:
i thought he was interracial dating anf marriage

Pruitt said:
One of Ali's grandsons looks like his Italian Father's side. Last I heard he was playing football at Ali did not like White Racists, but he was very fond of White females that were friendly to him. He made jokes about it to his Nation of Islam friends. Ali's wife did not like all the White women he was seeing.

Pruitt

i meant against interracial dating and marriage. i'm making a lot of these days

Oldandeasilycofused · Feb 15, 2022

Dan Howard said:
a 95% chance of not being selected.

Do you have a source for that claim, or did you work it out or just guess?

Muhammad Ali was drafted in 1967.

It's my understanding that during the Vietnam war the chances of being drafted were far greater if a bloke was black and poor. The middle and upper classes had a range of ways of avoiding the draft, some legitimate, such as a studies, some a bit more unconventional such as carefully worded medical reports. Or leaving the country. I understand 'lots of kids' went to Canada, where they would be given political asylum.

Don't know how true the above claims might be. I have no source to back them up..

However, I think the information below is about right.

"African American troops were more likely to be assigned to combat units: 23% of such troops in Vietnam were African Americans. In some airborne units African Americans composed 45-60% of troops. Racism against African Americans was particularly pronounced in the Navy."

What percentage of American soldiers in Vietnam were Black? - Google Search

*** I have never and will never criticise anyone who managed to avoid the draft during the Vietnam war. Neither the US nor Australia were under attack nor was it likely they would be. I was drafted in Australia in 1968. I served. It was pure serendipity that I was able to avoid Vietnam. IE I was already at the reinforcement centre. Next step was Vietnam.

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Were Elvis and Ali drafted for political reasons?

Ancientgeezer

Code Blue

Bishop

Pendennis

Derek Francis

Alexander the Gay

Zip

Oldandeasilycofused

Zip

Pruitt

Oldandeasilycofused

Pruitt

Alexander the Gay

Dan Howard

Zip

Dan Howard

Zip

Dan Howard

Alexander the Gay

Oldandeasilycofused

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