What is known about: Tartessos.

I would too like to know more about Tartessos, Iberia is not my forte.

Here is a friend`s hypothesis and I have to agree.

Ancient Iberia - All Empires

Tartessian is an absolute isolate that looks unlike any other language known.

docyabut said:

Tartessian is an absolute isolate that looks unlike any other language known.

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This is not the theory of John Koch who relates the Tartessian language to the Celtic languages. See :

Tartessian - Celtic in the South-West at the dawn of History (J Koch - 2009)
Celtic from the West (B Cunliffe and J Koch - 2010)
Tartessian 2 - The Inscription of Mesas do Castelinho (J Koch - 2011).

Though his theory shows a great deal of research, I have unsuccessfully tried on other history sites to obtain answers about what Celtic historians think of his theory (and I am not personally able to have an opinion on this theory, even having read these three books ).

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

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My personal favorite.

LOST LANGUAGE EVIDENCE FOUND IN PORTUGAL

Archaeology Briefs: LOST LANGUAGE EVIDENCE FOUND IN PORTUGAL


The taressians may have adopted some letters, however another translation difficulty is that the writing is not standardized. It seems certain that it was adapted from the Phoenician and Greek alphabets because it copied some of their written conventions. However, it also tweaked some of those rules and invented new ones.

Experts have identified characters that represent 15 syllables, seven consonants and five vowels. But eight characters, including a kind of vertical three-pronged fork, have confounded attempts at comprehension. There's also the problem of figuring out what messages the slate tablets are intended to convey. Even when they can read portions of text, scientists don't really understand what it is saying - like a child mouthing the words of a Shakespeare play.

Zeno it is interesting ,the lost city of Tartessos may have or have not been the tale of Atlantis, however like Atlantis disapears from history.From historian claims ,the city was a very rich city that had so much sliver, even the pig troughs were made of sliver.

docyabut said:

LOST LANGUAGE EVIDENCE FOUND IN PORTUGAL
Archaeology Briefs: LOST LANGUAGE EVIDENCE FOUND IN PORTUGAL

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Your reference is not up to date, as the 3 books of J.Koch have been published later.
However, one can find on the net a certain number of discussions about the J.Koch's theory, more con's than pro's. The difficulty to participate to these discussions is that you have to be a linguist expert, at least in IE and Celtic languages.

The name sounds like those pre-Greek placenames in Greece or Anatolia like Parnassos, Halikarnassos, Knossos etc etc.

A very old theory claimed a link to those peoples Yauna, but is unlikely.

Kings of Tartesso

Chrysa'or 1325 BC (the time of Perseus and Medusa)
Geryon 1250 BC (at the time of Heracles)
Norax 850 BC
Gargoris 800 BC
Habis 750 BC
Arganthonis.700 to 550 BC


Greek, however Arganthonis

Arganthonios (Argantonio in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language"]Spanish[/ame]) was a king of ancient [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartessos"]Tartessos[/ame] (in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusia"]Andalusia[/ame], southern [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain"]Spain[/ame]).
This name, or title, appears to be based on the Indo-European word for silver and money *arģ-, found in Celtiberian arkanta, Old Irish airget, Latin argentum, Sanskrit rajatám. Tartessia and all of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula"]Iberia[/ame] was rich in silver. Similar names (e.g. Argantoni) appear in inscriptions of the Roman period in or near former Tartessian territory. A similar name or title Argantoda(nos) is found on silver coinage in Northern Gaul and may have had a meaning akin to "treasurer".

To go back further(3500-3000bc)

There are the plagues of southwest Iberia, a culture from where?

http://www.igespar.pt/media/uploads/revistaportuguesadearqueologia/5_2/5.pdf

Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 17. 1 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"Eurystheus then enjoined him [Herakles] as a tenth Labour the bringing back of the cattle of Geryones, which pastured in the parts of Iberia which slope towards the ocean. And Herakles, realizing that the task called for preparation on a large scale and involved great hardships, gathered a notable armament and a multitude of soldiers as would be adequate for this expedition. For it had been noised abroad throughout all the inhabited world that Khrysaor (Golden-Sword), who received this appellation because of his wealth, was king over the whole of Iberia, and that he had three sons [the three-bodied Geryon] to fight at his side, who excelled in both strength of body and the deeds of courage which they displayed in contests of war; it was known, furthermore, that each of these sons had at his disposal great forces which were recruited from warlike tribes. It was because of these reports that Eurystheus, thinking any expedition against these men would be too difficult to succeed, had assigned the Herakles the Labour just described."


It was known, furthermore, that each of these sons had at his disposal great forces which were recruited from warlike tribes. The Atlanteans" living in North Africa?

Diviacus said:

Your reference is not up to date, as the 3 books of J.Koch have been published later.
However, one can find on the net a certain number of discussions about the J.Koch's theory, more con's than pro's. The difficulty to participate to these discussions is that you have to be a linguist expert, at least in IE and Celtic languages.

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That kind of writing is usally defined has Southwestern Script, since it gives it a broader range.

Has for it being celtic, i leave it to the experts. Around here people tend to believe it´s a local language, with the script influenced by the phoenicians. Hence the dificulty in translating.

On the Tartessos topic, the mythical city hasn´t been found, maybe it never existed, but they gave it´s name to the Iron Age culture, that corresponds to the area where it should have been. The great argument is, once again, is it original, celt, or phonecian.

Tartessos (also Tartessus) was a harbor city on the south coast of the Iberian peninsula (in modern Andalusia, Spain), at the mouth of the Guadalquivir river. Tartessos at least dates from 1000 BC, about the time when the Phoenicians made contact with the city. However, the city likely began at an unknown, earlier date. The Tartessians were traders, who may have discovered the route to the Tin Islands (Britain or more precisely the Scilly Islands). Trade in Tin was very lucrative in this era since it was necessary for the production of bronze, and the people from Tartessos became important trading partners of the Phoenicians, who nearby built a harbor of their own, Gades (current-day Cádiz). Ancient Greek texts refer to a legendary king of Tartessos, Arganthonios, known for his wealth in silver and minerals. Greek texts say Arganthonios lived many years beyond the normal human lifespan, but Arganthonios may have been the name of several Tartessian kings or their title, giving rise to legends of a single man's longevity. Artifacts linked with the Tartessos culture have been found, but the site of the Tartessos' city is lost.


Lost Civilization


In the 6th century BC, Tartessos disappears rather suddenly from history. The Romans called the wide bay the Tartessius Sinus though the city was no more. One theory is that the city had been destroyed by the Carthaginians who wanted to take over the Tartessans' trading routes. Another is that it had been refounded, under obscure conditions, as Carpia. When the traveller Pausanias visited Greece in the 2nd century AD (Paus. Desc. 6.XIX.3) he saw two bronze chambers in one of the sanctuaries at Olympia, which the people of Elis claimed was Tartessian bronze:


"They say that Tartessus is a river in the land of the Iberians, running down into the sea by two mouths, and that between these two mouths lies a city of the same name. The river, which is the largest in Iberia, and tidal, those of a later day called Baetis, and there are some who think that Tartessus was the ancient name of Carpia, a city of the Iberians."


The name "Carpia" possibly survives as El Carpio, a site in a bend of the Guadalquivir, but the origin of its name has been associated with its imposing oldest feature, a Moorish tower erected in 1325 by the engineer responsible for the alcázar of Seville.


The site of Tartessos has been lost—buried under the shifting wetlands that have replaced former estuaries behind dunes at the modern single mouth of the Guadalquivir, where the river delta has gradually been blocked off by a huge sandbar that stretches from the mouth of the Rio Tinto, near Palos de la Frontera, to the riverbank opposite Sanlúcar de Barrameda. The area is now protected as the Parque Nacional de Doñana. (see link)


Mythical and Religious Connections


Some believe Tartessos was the source of the legend of Atlantis. The similarities between the two legendary societies certainly make this connection seem possible. Both Atlantis and Tartessos are believed to have been advanced societies who collapsed when their cities were lost beneath the waves. The enigmatic .... of Elx, a high artistic quality, ancient bust of a woman found in southeastern Spain, has been tied with both Atlantis and Tartessos since the statue displays the dress of unrecognized culture, that presumably developed great artistic skill to have produced such a work.


Some Tartessian enthusiasts imagine it as a contemporary of Atlantis, with which could have traded.


In the Bible, the word Tarshish may refer to Tartessos. Tarshish, like Tartessos, is associated with extensive mineral wealth.


Possible Discovery


Although several finds have been made in southern Spain that are ascribed to the Tartessan culture, the city itself has not been recovered by professional archeologists, though it may have recently been discovered in Spain's Marisma de Hinojos region. While the discoverers of the site insist it is the lost city of Atlantis, the site is a much better fit for Tartessos. It is within the area of Tartessian artifact finds, it is where Tartessos is described historically, and it is sensibly located near Gades (Cadiz). After all, the Phoenicians built Gades for the sole purpose of trading with Tartessos.


The discovery includes a very simple reason for Tartessos' disappearance from history as well, as the region was flooded between 800 and 500 BC, precisely when Tartessos ceased being mentioned in historical texts. This also ties in with Atlantis again, likely the reason for the site's identification. Indeed, this discovery may not only solve one mystery but two; the location of Tartessos as well as the identity of Atlantis.


http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/Tartessos.html