What is wrong with women these days?

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Collingwood

Joined Apr 2013
2,544 Posts | 0+
U.K.
In this day and age, unless you share housework, child-rearing duities, cooking even, yes, some men can cook, with woman, with both adults out at work, you're just going to end up with an exhausted partner or wife, and that will lead to other problems, or even a break eventually due to resentment... so it makes no sense really to just raise your feet as she hoovers under them!
:)
 
Fox

Fox

Joined Oct 2011
3,937 Posts | 76+
Korea
Last edited:
Collingwood said:
In this day and age, unless you share housework, child-rearing duities, cooking even, yes, some men can cook, with woman, with both adults out at work, you're just going to end up with an exhausted partner or wife, and that will lead to other problems, or even a break eventually due to resentment... so it makes no sense really to just raise your feet as she hoovers under them!
:)
Click to expand...

Or, alternatively, you could just give up on marriage entirely. There's a reason single men do less housework than single women: as a rule, they simply feel there's less that needs doing at any given moment. If, in addition to the additional expenses and responsibilities of married life you're going to try to push men into doing 50% of all the housework the woman feels needs to be done, well, you're simply going to see a lot of men saying, "Fine, forget it," which is part of what was alluded to earlier.

I can't speak for any other man, but I require a certain amount of free time to myself, to the extent that I'm willing to sacrifice a perfectly orderly household in order to maintain it. If my wife (or anyone's wife) isn't willing to do the same, that's her option, and when the feminist crusade becomes, "Men need to wash more dishes and do more vaccuuming for us!" we've departed from anything which can even be vaguely construed as "liberation" and moved on into male subjugation.

If I'm hungry and my wife doesn't feel like cooking me a meal, I'll cook for myself; I'm not her boss, and I don't command her. The natural inverse of that is that if she wants the vaccuuming done and I don't feel like doing it, she's going to have to do it for herself. The reason women frequently seem to "lose out" in such an exchange is because the women simply wants more. I've seen households where the woman cares as little as the man about chores. They look like places a single man would live. I can't say I see much of a problem with that, and such households show perfectly what the whole "equal housework for husband and wife" idea is really all about: the husband doing what the wife wants done, and doing so in quiet obedience. Feminism indeed.
 
C

Collingwood

Joined Apr 2013
2,544 Posts | 0+
U.K.
Last edited:
All good points Fox, and I know exactly where you are coming from, and here's another thought, sometimes I've worked such ridiculously long hours, that there's nothing much left at the end of the day and week. We'vea ll been there.

But I had to get used to self-sufficient living at times, moved with job, the aforementioned hours, have had my own place, and dreaded a live-in woman at times, because whether via a touch of paranoia, or something else it may create tension, or new sets of rules, so I'm going to contradict my post above slightly, I didn't give proportions, however, did I :), if it isn't relaxed, it would drive me crazy.

I can do a 50/50. but with as I say, women not being able to necessarily cook or clean well, what if that is taken advantage of, not with me it won't be, that's for sure.
But, there's a lot of talk in feminism of equality, but the actions don't match the words, as so many people now, including women, are selfish, and concerned with say, image, or how their friends see them, that's not even me being cynical, it's what I see.
 
C

Collingwood

Joined Apr 2013
2,544 Posts | 0+
U.K.
Last edited:
Here's a real-life example:

A few years ago, a guy I worked with appraoched me and said "...you go up mountains, don't you?"

What he meant was, I had a background in hillwalking, outdoor treks, and 'going up mountains' even.
He was due to lead team in a charity event, and as a Rugby player, his knee had given out.

Now the event, it was on Dartmoor, a tough environment, with often strange and unpredictable weather. The event, to carry packs weighing never less than 70lbs over around 25 miles. The Royal Marines were supporting it, and manning checkpoints, to weigh us in along the way, we'd had an initila check in on scales, and had something like 12 hours to complete the distance.

I was in.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmoor"]Dartmoor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Anyway, 12 teams entered, and the money was being raised for charity but before that our money was to support an even more impressive attempt on Everest. A few of the guys I was with would go on to do that if all went well.
And the day came, a few soliders entered, we lost them on exhaustion, bizarrely, at the half way point, they crashed out.

Only two teams made it, out of the 12, my team and this other, they'd timed it, paced, all guys, had done it before, my team was down on points due to the time we took, why, because we had a .... in the team who couldn't match our natural pace, or the pace of the other 7 of us.

So anyway, after losing half my guys, and making up the team with other non-injured outs from another team to fit into the rules of this event, we got back, exhausted, did 30 miles in the end, the Marines wanted to pull us off the Moor, because in a few hours time they said it would turn into a survival issue, the 30 miles instead of 25 was a navigation error and a route off the dangerous part of this landscape, we followed a sort of escape route...

So... after all of that, you can imagine, we were quite elated. A goodand full eve of beer and entertainment ensued.

When I got back to my digs, a flat mate's brother's girlfriend, a very attractive .... had turned up, was crashing there temporarily, not even paying rent, a few of us in a houseshare you see, and seeing all of my gear, asked what I 'd been up to, the guy was congratulating me and all upbeat and she was in my face quite quickly, lots of questions...

I answered:
Well, we did quite well, did this/ did that... you know, but would have made it on the timing aspect too, if our female member had been able to keep up with the guys, it wasn't her fault. she did tremendously, she was carrying the same weight as us for the most part... and was half our size to boot, we're all pretty big guys, and then...

She launched straight into a discussion of how woman are equal, and that was out of order in this way and that, and being defensive, may have mentinioned woman were in the army now, some are stronger than men... on it went. On and on, if she'd turned up again, I'd be ignored, said flat mate used to tease her on the cell/phone, C is here, want to say hello. God only knows what response that got. I been probably been long consigned to hell by then.

And that is something I could apply to a 100 other little situs I've seen, the anger, without even thinking, the moment you say an innocent remark, or voice a POV, it wasn't even the main point, said .... had done better than us, she as I say carried a rucksack bigger than her and she was not injured off.
The Marines had a sort of Argocat, the only tracked vehicle that could cope with the terrain, which was the hardest aspect, underfoot, and took her off the moors, just at the end, whilst we guys dumped our balllast, mainly water, because we had to get off there sharpish. It was incredible, we'd even had a Major briefing us the night before who'd just finished a tour in Iraq.

But back in civi-land, a careless, or not even careless, truthful remark produced all that, I was still pretty stoked after the event, and I got read the riot act and judged. It's as though an entitlement to be right or offended has crept in, that may be another way of putting it, judgement immediately.
 
Louise C

Louise C

Joined Jan 2011
7,239 Posts | 5+
Southeast England
Collingwood said:
In this day and age, unless you share housework, child-rearing duities, cooking even, yes, some men can cook, with woman, with both adults out at work, you're just going to end up with an exhausted partner or wife, and that will lead to other problems, or even a break eventually due to resentment... so it makes no sense really to just raise your feet as she hoovers under them!
:)
Click to expand...

The reality is though, that when both people work, the one who cares more tends to do more of the housework. And more often than not, that is the woman.

As for child rearing, if both are working, then someone else is doing most of that.
 
C

Collingwood

Joined Apr 2013
2,544 Posts | 0+
U.K.
Louise C said:
The reality is though, that when both people work, the one who cares more tends to do more of the housework. And more often than not, that is the woman.

As for child rearing, if both are working, then someone else is doing most of that.
Click to expand...


I know Louise, and men often have 'different standards'.

Toilet, but I only cleaned it last month!
 
light532

light532

Joined Aug 2013
107 Posts | 0+
Australia
Fireatwill said:
There is no such a thing as men or women, they might have biological differences but they're the same human entity.

This is not some liberal gender equality nonsense, its actually a far more somber and pessimistic view.

The world will not be a better place if women were in charge.
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This is the most sensible thing I've read in this thread.
 
light532

light532

Joined Aug 2013
107 Posts | 0+
Australia
Last edited:
Fox said:
Ah, I see. So for women, feminism is about choice and rights, and for men, feminism is about being forced to do housework.
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Do you not feel obliged to clean after yourself? Grooming is an animal trait relating to good emotional health. A few mates of mine are driven crazy by their messy girlfriends and have rows with them about keeping things tidy and well organised. One is in the military. They consider cleanliness and order manly.
 
Fox

Fox

Joined Oct 2011
3,937 Posts | 76+
Korea
Last edited:
light532 said:
Do you not feel obliged to clean after yourself?
Click to expand...

Of course I do, but not the same (from my perspective extreme) extent that many women would. Your question is predicated upon a willful misreading of what I said. "A cleans house less than B," is not the same as, "A never cleans."

Let me just be frank: I've read your posts on this issue, and I'm not interested in bashing my head against the wall trying to get someone so heavily indoctrinated with feminist ideology to see sense. When a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door, I don't try to persuade him his cult is wrong, I simply close the door. You and he are intellectually identical, and thus, so is my response.

Have a nice day Light532.
 
A

Angelica

Joined Dec 2011
3,173 Posts | 237+
Angel City
Sargon of Akkad said:
Then why are they unhappier than they were 50 years ago?



Campaigned. And I agree they should have those rights.



I think that depends on one's definition of "power". I have seen a lot of women exercise power over men without even uttering a word. A single look or gesture can do as much as a fist ever could.



I'd like to see your evidence for this assertion, please. I hate to get all Sylla on everyone, but this does need to be qualified.



What rights, exactly, do women get punished for? The right to vote? Earn equal pay? Make their own life choices? These were what feminists campaigned for, and women have them all with no stigma attached at all.



So? Feminists didn't campaign for the right to act as decadently as possible with no consequences. If the man and woman in the video had been fighting instead of engaging in a ... act, who would have been abused then?

Remember, a key that opens many locks is a good key, a lock that opens to many keys is a bad lock.

This is the thing about power, it can be subtle. Women hold reproductive power, men do not. Men hold physical power, women do not. This is why women who abuse their reproductive power are shamed, for the same reason that men who abuse their phyiscal power are shamed.
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R5 plus said:
Here's my piece. For all those who haven't a clue, this all started on another thread and has crossed over onto others.

First, a history lesson for our dear Sargon, feel free to listen in...

My parents are in their 80's.

My paternal grandmother - divorced while her children were young - her husband ran away with another woman - What should a woman do? This is a time when people rarely got divorces and there was a great deal of stigma involved. Could she stay home and take care of her babies when her husband upped and left her?

I don't know her work history, but she did end up marrying again. Her second husband always carried a gun with him and liked to shoot holes in things when he got mad - like his windshield.

My maternal grandmother - her husband died when mom was young, leaving my grandmother with 4 kids to raise on her own. I do not know her work history, but think she married twice more. The last one may have been harming one of the kids. This is my impression from a recent visit to my parents - though no one came right out and said it.

My mom stayed at home with me, I'm the youngest by several years. With her oldest three, she worked. She worked and helped put my dad through college to get his master's degree. Dad stayed home with the kids while she worked, but she still did most of the housework and all the cooking.

They have been married over 60 years. Has it always been easy? No.

My sister has always needed a steady job. Her husband's income has always fluctuated. She had two kids, and I don't remember how long she was able to stay with them before going back to work - but going back to work she had to do.

So, now we get to me. I have been a stay at home mom for the last 13 years (and married for nearly 20). This is a decision we did not make lightly and we have made some sacrifices to do it. It is important to us - I do not recall asking anyone on this forum permission to do it. I also do not want people patting me on the head or denigrating our decisions. I'm sure some will do it anyway, as some do it in my real life as well. People are people and sometimes they can be really annoying. (Now there's a generalization I can agree with).:notrust:

People can be mad at the diehard feminists all they want, but I can see some blessings in there. I once made the joking remark that I am glad I'm allowed to wear jeans - well, I am. I'm glad I can wear jeans and not a corset. Nor have my feet bound. Nor have my female parts cut off. Nor be sold by my husband. Nor...fill in the blank.

I'm also vitally glad that if something happens to my husband, heaven forbid, I don't have to remarry right away - because I can get a job. I do not want that choice ever, ever taken away from me. And I don't ever want to feel like I need to remarry ASAP, just to find out my second choice endangers us - especially my children.

I am going to take people as individuals, even as I note the trends. Telling women they should all stay home and be happy doesn't work for everyone, no matter how hard some wish it. Just as the reverse also doesn't work for everyone.

Some women enjoy being at home, and I do. But that doesn't mean I like it all. Talk about stereotyping - I do not like to cook and I absolutely loathe shopping - especially for clothes. A SAHM who doesn't like to cook, how can she even call herself a mother? Well, I have the stretch marks to prove it.:notrust:

Fox, you want to get in the middle of it - fine, I haven't read all your posts on the other thread, my beef is basically with Sargon at the moment.

Sargon, however, keeps waffling all over the place, I'm having a hard time keeping up. Sometimes I think he hates women, other times I think he loves them. He doesn't like people's answers - so they must not be real answers.

People think I'm getting upset. Is that because I'm a woman? I think I've been rather nice. I haven't called one single person an ".....". As a matter of fact, I challenge you to find a single post anywhere on this forum where I have ever come out and called someone an ".....". Sargon came right out and called women "idiots". Yet - no one should be mad/upset about that or any of the other things he has said against women (in totality, not the general sense).

It's kind of ironic, isn't it, that the person you probably have offended the most on this forum actually might be the only one here living the life you feel all women should be living...

The difference though, is I truly feel loved, cherished, valued and respected by my husband. We are one. And not because I got lost in him or vice versa. And we're not constantly watching each other to make certain we are conforming to our gender - sometimes I mow the grass, sometimes he cooks, sometimes he changes the poopy diapers, sometimes I take out the garbage. It's about working together for the good of the whole. And if some day, our circumstances change so that I have to go to work - he will support me in that as well.

And the respect he treats me with, he treats other women with the same respect. I can't say the same for you, Sargon. Right on this forum you have chosen to group us together and treat us like dirt.
Click to expand...

Excellent post!
 
Sargon of Akkad

Sargon of Akkad

Joined Jun 2009
6,987 Posts | 17+
Glorious England
light532 said:
Women aren't screeching 'we don't need men!' That is a gross generalisation. Women love men. They just find it hard to find men who share the work load, especially the house work. Women sadly, take it all on, when they should demand team work.
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50 years ago, yes. Now? Rubbish. I don't know a man who doesn't do housework. This is the problem with feminism, it's still stuck in the 70s.
 
C

Collingwood

Joined Apr 2013
2,544 Posts | 0+
U.K.
an Aside, please excuse me:

Great post
Best.Post.Ever
Excellent!

Humbly folks, I think we should all try to avoid this kind of thing if we can, we're all guilty, guilty m' Lord, of doing this, but it doesn't mean anything, it's a quick stab at saying this is the final argument because I say so.

 
Naomasa298
United-Kingdom

Naomasa298

Joined Apr 2010
50,502 Posts | 11,794+
Awesome
Collingwood said:
In this day and age, unless you share housework, child-rearing duities, cooking even, yes, some men can cook, with woman, with both adults out at work, you're just going to end up with an exhausted partner or wife, and that will lead to other problems, or even a break eventually due to resentment... so it makes no sense really to just raise your feet as she hoovers under them!
:)
Click to expand...

The household staff do that sort of thing. I just let the butler take care of them.
 
Earl_of_Rochester

Earl_of_Rochester

Joined Feb 2011
13,604 Posts | 165+
Perambulating in St James' Park
I don't think you can generalise too much, but I think the point Sargon makes, and one which a lot of men detest, is that women still get the option to ride in the passenger seat of someone else's more successful life. If they wanted to they could sit at home all day doing nothing.

Men, on the other hand, have no choice in such matters and probably never will.

The sexism is also vastly against men, yet no-one blinks an eye about it. The unspoken rule is that women get stuff for free when they go out, free entry into clubs, free drinks and guys generally have to make the first move too. Life is entirely heavily stacked against men when it comes down to social equality, yet there is no masculine movement to protest. If you do then you're labelled as ungentlemanly or tight.
 
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