Which ancient civilisation had a bigger impact on the world: Ancient Greece or the Romans

Too intertwined to say. Too intertwined for the question to even really be well defined, how do you judge if something that happened was due to Greek or Roman influence? Would the Greeks have had half the influence they had without the Romans to spread and support their ideas for a millennia or more? What would Roman civilization have been like without the Greeks?

You might as well ask "What's the most important ingredient in a hot-dog; the bread or the sausage?"

I've been dying to find the right audience for this.... and (hopefully) here it is!

This is an interesting discussion about the subject:

Niobe said:

I've been dying to find the right audience for this.... and (hopefully) here it is!
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Shouldn't Rome be stabbing Greece?

They are intertwined to some extent, but Rome.

Quite frankly Europe and the nations that were formed from European colonies would not be part of what we now refer to Western Civilization without the Roman conquest. The Macedonian empire, besides being very short-lived, was in the east...not the west.

Just one word: Philosophy

Scaeva said:

They are intertwined to some extent, but Rome.

Quite frankly Europe and the nations that were formed from European colonies would not be part of what we now refer to Western Civilization without the Roman conquest. The Macedonian empire, besides being very short-lived, was in the east...not the west.

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Except the Romans conquered the east as much as the west.

Quite frankly we wouldn't recognize western civilisation without the Germanics turning up and putting a distinct spin on things either.

Konstantinos said:

Just one word: Philosophy

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How does that answer the question of which was the most influential?

By the fact that Romans or Roman modern western civilization have not be able to find another non-Hellenic term for this so important sense, over the last millenniums?

Konstantinos said:

By the fact that Romans or Roman modern western civilization have not be able to find another non-Hellenic term for this so important sense, over the last millenniums?

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You are judging the Greeks to be the most influential because of they originated this one word "philosophy"?

I voted the Romans partly because the philosophy that arose under them, and established by them, Christianity, dominated Western civilisation for over 1000 years. Which Greek philosophy held any real influence in the past 1000 years?

The Greek writings and artefacts we have available are mostly of those things that the Romans selected and copied.

The buildings that the Romans made throughout most of Europe have had a huge influence on Western civilisation.

I like Catholics and Protestants who don't know that there was a reason why the capital of Roman Empire changed, Christianity is Greek word, New Testament is written originally in Greek, even recently Vatican made some changes in Latin translation and especially, i like these ones who think that Orthodoxy and more specifically Greek Orthodoxy is an absolute nothing.

Believe me, the phrase:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

is completely different than the original.

PS: I forgot to mention them who don't know that Catholicism is a Greek word as well.

PS2: I just started reading some articles about the situation in India and Pakistan, and the first thing I wanted to see is what is Kashmir. Suddenly, I noticed the Greek words Kaspapyros - Kashyapa.

The gospels were written in Greek, but the Christian religion was not Greek, it rose from Judaism, Jesus spoke Aramaic language.

There are many words which are derived from Greek but that doesn't mean that those things were originally greek.

It doesn't matter what language the gospels were originally written. What matters here is the language they were transmited and then read in western europe. Indeed, the real question in the op is: which civilization influencied western europe the most. Because any influence either Rome or Greece had in the world came from Europe's eventual expansion and its global empires.

fascinating said:

The gospels were written in Greek, but the Christian religion was not Greek, it rose from Judaism, Jesus spoke Aramaic language.

There are many words which are derived from Greek but that doesn't mean that those things were originally greek.

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SNascimento said:

It doesn't matter what language the gospels were originally written. What matters here is the language they were transmited and then read in western europe. Indeed, the real question in the op is: which civilization influencied western europe the most. Because any influence either Rome or Greece had in the world came from Europe's eventual expansion and its global empires.

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This is exactly the problem with this question. Is Christianity a Greek influence or a Roman one? Sure, the original texts were mostly written in Greece, but it was the centralisation and structures of the Roman empire that made it spread and stick around. Not to mention that "Greek" philosophy was heavily affected by the development of the Roman world anyway. So it's utterly meaningless to claim that it was mostly one or the other. They are not separating things, it doesn't make sense to judge them as if they were.

Let me say that Christianity has been created by Greeks as an ancient anti-zionism. For example, you cannot say that Apocalypse was created by Jews. In any case, the Greek influence in Christianity is 100 times more than Roman and it is much more than in other aspects of modern civilization. For example, maybe in engineering, indeed Roman civilization has influenced more. But especially in Christianity I doubt if for example for 100 Greek-origin words, there is a Latin one. (even Pope is a Greek word). And yes language and words are important but Greek influence is not only in this point but more general. For example, the schism was not 50-50 or maybe 80-20 for Roman, as Vatican has misled some of you. The truth is that only the Patriarchate of Rome "rebelled". All the other Patriarchates remained united (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem if I remember correctly) So schism was neither 50-50, nor 80-20. In any case, let me tell you that in my opinion, Armenian Christianity has much stronger influence in Christianity than Romans.

It is worth mentioning the John 12, 20-24:


20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

Bible Gateway passage: John 12 - New International Version

Some of these phrases have specific meaning in Christianity.

@ SNascimento

The thread talks about the influence in the world, not just in Western Europe. And of course, the influence of Ancient Greece in current world has not only come from Romans and western Europe. Ancient Macedonia influenced the far East, and Eastern Orthodox Christianity have also influenced the current world. Much more than Vatican spreads.

Sometimes, I want to ask some of you, what is the correct version of the phrase: Any non-Greek is barbarian or Any Greek is barbarian?

Konstantinos said:

The thread talks about the influence in the world, not just in Western Europe. And of course, the influence of Ancient Greece in current world has not only come from Romans and western Europe. Ancient Macedonia influenced the far East, and Eastern Orthodox Christianity have also influenced the current world. Much more than Vatican spreads.

Sometimes, I want to ask some of you, what is the correct version of the phrase: Any non-Greek is barbarian or Any Greek is barbarian?

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That's Roman influence.

And Macedonian influence in the far east is minimal.

Greece was the wine , Rome was the bottle

Larrey said:

Except the Romans conquered the east as much as the west.

Quite frankly we wouldn't recognize western civilisation without the Germanics turning up and putting a distinct spin on things either.

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The Romans did conquer the east but it remained largely Hellenized until the Arab conquest. Greek, not Latin, was the dominant language in the east even after Rome's fall.

While the Germanics did put a distinct spin on Western civilization, the original post asked only about Greece and Rome.

Id like to argue that the Greeks didn't originate philosophy but rather it was the Egyptians.

So if philosophy is the sole reason on influence, then Egypt would be the winner.

I voted Greece though, cause thats who I actually think influenced the most.