Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
Joined Mar 2011
3,342 Posts | 20+
dragon's area
but you are wasting your time, he only repeat "I am right" "I am right" although every chinese can point his holes out~~~
Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
No one has pointed out any holes in any of my opinions or the things that I state.
Joined May 2013
622 Posts | 3+
New Zealand
Because Japan wasn't required to pay a debt to China to make up for the atrocities one nation did in their past. In my opinion Japan should pay some money.
Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
In 1972, Japanese prime minister Kakuei Tanaka visited China and met Mao.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/_…
After the "Joint Communique between Japan and China" on Sep 29 1972, Japan started to pay lots of money to China as the form of ODA (Official development assistance). The amount paid to China reached over US$30 billion until present day, and 20 billion of them became pure donation (China don't need to pay back the 20 bil).
Japan paird for Burma, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Vietnam. Cos Japan didn't develope and leave important assets in these countries.
Japan paid US$200 million for Burma (former nation of Myanmar) with the treaty on November 5 1951.
To Phillipines, Japan paid US$550 million along with the compensation agreement of May 9 1956.
To Indonesia, Japan paid US$223 million along with the compensation agreement of January 20 1958.
To Vietnam, Japan paid US$3.9 million along with the compensation agreement of May 13 1959.).
Why did China renounce right to war reparations from Japan in a 1972 treaty? - Yahoo! Answers
Joined Mar 2011
3,342 Posts | 20+
dragon's area
Last edited:
making rumor!
what you said about the japan's ODA, I had gave the detail in historum before long time.
at first, it started from 1979, not 1972. (you even make mistake about the time.)
ODA's main parts (I only give the china's example), most are the loan. do you need me to give the meaning about loan?
just watch the picture, the blue pillars in the right above is just the loan from japan to china.
----------------------------------------------
ODA's base is not charity, but benifit, china is very poor in that period, so china main used the resource for return the loan, the free money is not much, and if think of the later's yen appreciation, china basically returned all japan's money (include the loan and the free parts).
and as the exchange, china opened the specially market to japan's products when they accept the ODA, in that period, japan's a lot of products rush into china markets, ask any old chinese about this point.
that is what japan products needed in that period, it need resourse and markets, in fact, many japan's aid in SEA, most are same situation, at first give some loan, then let the locals to return back with resource, and a lot of japan products rush into.
only you can claim loan as "pay compensation", it is known that japan didn't give war compensation to china, only give "deny history".
If I don't remember it wrong, those threads about my ODA explain before long time, you joined into too, why did you still repeat wrong information now?
Attachments
Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
Last edited:
I have dealt with this issue before. See my message 758 on page 76 of this thread.
Some 80% of Japan's pre-war overseas investment was in China and Manchuria. After the Japanese surrender in 1945, most of that investment, a very large amount, was confiscated by the Chinese Government; Japanese assets in Manchuria were seized by the Soviet Union.
Here is what I wrote on that issue in my message 758:
Thus, China received confiscated Japanese assets with a value of $206.6 billion in 2013 prices, adequate compensation for any damage done by Japanese military actions in that country.
If the Chinese people did not benefit from all that confiscated Japanese wealth, it was because the Chinese Government, both the Guomindang, and the Communists, squandered it with stupid, ideologically-based economic policies.
first you take over some resources by force and use them as weapon against their country. second you give all these resources back but as a war paying
how cheap
even Japan government didn't say that
how cheap
even Japan government didn't say that
i suddenly know why a chamber is needed
because not only people can hardly achieve agreement on certain issues. bu also some people imposed with false concepts never admit that, their basic weapon is 'I am right, you are wrong', whatever you say
because not only people can hardly achieve agreement on certain issues. bu also some people imposed with false concepts never admit that, their basic weapon is 'I am right, you are wrong', whatever you say
These were not resources taken by force.
The Japanese assets were investments made by Japan in China, eg the construction of factories.
The bulk of those investments had been made after the Frist World War, and well before the outbreak of the Sino-Japanese War in 1937.
By 1930, the value of Japanese investments in China exceeded the total value of all other foreign investments in that country.
how was the investment?
did you ever compare the details of the contracts?
what about the Maguan treaty and 21 demands and others that made so called investment more robbing?
what about the dumping
those wealth(natural resources, human labor) Chinese can use them peacefully, however Japan use them to supply the army for invasion or invasion preparation, should Chinese pay for that?
of cause, maybe you would tell us that that's the treaty, Chinese have to blame themselves...
maybe we should enjoy more about Japanese ruling.
oh, come my warriors of my emperor, I'll enjoy your killing
Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
From - http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metacrs13/m1/1/high_res_d/91-216f_1991Mar07.txt
-ti- Japan's World War II Reparations: A Fact Sheet
March 7, 1991
Congressional Research Service Report
Larry A. Niksch
Specialist in Asian Affairs Foreign Affairs and National Defense
Division
Japan,s war reparations following World War II came in two
stages. In the first, 1946-1949, U.S. and allied governments
arranged for U.S. occupation authorities to ship about $160
million in Japanese industrial equipment to China, the
Philippines, Indonesia, and the British colonies in East Asia.
The second stage resulted from the 1951 Trealy of Peace between
Japan and most of the allied nations. The treaty required Japan
to negotiate reparations agreements with countries, whose
territories Japan had occupied during the war. Over the next
eight years, Japan negotiated major reparations agreements with
Burma, the Philippines, and Indonesia.
It also concluded minor accords with South Vietnam, Laos, and
Cambodia. Japan did not conclude an agreement with China. The
Chinese Nationalist government on Taiwan declined reparations,
and Japan did not have diplomatic relations with the Communist
government on the Chinese mainland. That government said it would
not seek reparations when it established diplomatic relations
with Japan in 1972.
The agreements with Burma, the Philippines and Indonesia are
summarized:
Agreement with Burma, 1954 -- Japan provided $200 million in
free goods and services, and $50 million in loans;
Agreement with the Philippines, 1956 -- Japan provided $500
million in free goods over a ten-year period; $30 million in
technical services; $20 million in payments to war widows and
orphans; and $250 million in long-term loans;
Agreement with Indonesia, 1958 -- Japan provided $223 million
in free goods over 12 years, and $400 million in private loans
and investment; Japan also canceled a $177 million Indonesian
debt to Japan.
CRS-2
In 1965, Japan and South Korea agreed to establish diplomatic
relations. In the agreement, Japan promised to provide $300
million in grants and $200 million in 25-year, low-interest
loans. The agreement did not use the word reparations. The
Koreans, however, did describe it as a reparations agreement.
Recently, Japanese officials have described the aid as
reparations, as they began negotiations with North Korea at the
end of 1990 over an agreement to normalize relations that likely
would provide for Japanese reparations payments to North Korea
for the period of Japanese colonial rule over Korea.
-ti- Japan's World War II Reparations: A Fact Sheet
March 7, 1991
Congressional Research Service Report
Larry A. Niksch
Specialist in Asian Affairs Foreign Affairs and National Defense
Division
Japan,s war reparations following World War II came in two
stages. In the first, 1946-1949, U.S. and allied governments
arranged for U.S. occupation authorities to ship about $160
million in Japanese industrial equipment to China, the
Philippines, Indonesia, and the British colonies in East Asia.
The second stage resulted from the 1951 Trealy of Peace between
Japan and most of the allied nations. The treaty required Japan
to negotiate reparations agreements with countries, whose
territories Japan had occupied during the war. Over the next
eight years, Japan negotiated major reparations agreements with
Burma, the Philippines, and Indonesia.
It also concluded minor accords with South Vietnam, Laos, and
Cambodia. Japan did not conclude an agreement with China. The
Chinese Nationalist government on Taiwan declined reparations,
and Japan did not have diplomatic relations with the Communist
government on the Chinese mainland. That government said it would
not seek reparations when it established diplomatic relations
with Japan in 1972.
The agreements with Burma, the Philippines and Indonesia are
summarized:
Agreement with Burma, 1954 -- Japan provided $200 million in
free goods and services, and $50 million in loans;
Agreement with the Philippines, 1956 -- Japan provided $500
million in free goods over a ten-year period; $30 million in
technical services; $20 million in payments to war widows and
orphans; and $250 million in long-term loans;
Agreement with Indonesia, 1958 -- Japan provided $223 million
in free goods over 12 years, and $400 million in private loans
and investment; Japan also canceled a $177 million Indonesian
debt to Japan.
CRS-2
In 1965, Japan and South Korea agreed to establish diplomatic
relations. In the agreement, Japan promised to provide $300
million in grants and $200 million in 25-year, low-interest
loans. The agreement did not use the word reparations. The
Koreans, however, did describe it as a reparations agreement.
Recently, Japanese officials have described the aid as
reparations, as they began negotiations with North Korea at the
end of 1990 over an agreement to normalize relations that likely
would provide for Japanese reparations payments to North Korea
for the period of Japanese colonial rule over Korea.
Joined Mar 2011
3,342 Posts | 20+
dragon's area
Last edited:
it is the first time that I heard somebody claimed investment as " compensation", btw, japan can earn money from investment or not?
as for the pre-war investment as investment , that is more funny, after 1895 war, japan forced qing china give a lot of reparations by war way, the huge amount let japan very quickly rise after 1895, and the privileges let japan products especially textile rush into china, a lot of china national textile industry bankruptcy.
you said about "manchuria investment", so you must know japan robbed a lot of manchuria resource especially the minerals. japan had painted and punished the minerals of manchuria in 1938 and these minerals most are under the japanese army's controll.
how shameless to claim these actions as investment and claim these things are good to chinese people and chinese people should keep grateful to japan.
btw, let us give account together too since you claimed manchuria. japan's 731 biochemical forces use alive chinese and other countries people for biochemical bacteria test, the programs included vivisection. how much money do you think that value?
thank you for you show me how shameless the japan's deny history opinion is, they can claim loan as compensation, they can claim colonial rule as investment, the can claim investment as compensation.
as for the pre-war investment as investment , that is more funny, after 1895 war, japan forced qing china give a lot of reparations by war way, the huge amount let japan very quickly rise after 1895, and the privileges let japan products especially textile rush into china, a lot of china national textile industry bankruptcy.
you said about "manchuria investment", so you must know japan robbed a lot of manchuria resource especially the minerals. japan had painted and punished the minerals of manchuria in 1938 and these minerals most are under the japanese army's controll.
how shameless to claim these actions as investment and claim these things are good to chinese people and chinese people should keep grateful to japan.
btw, let us give account together too since you claimed manchuria. japan's 731 biochemical forces use alive chinese and other countries people for biochemical bacteria test, the programs included vivisection. how much money do you think that value?
thank you for you show me how shameless the japan's deny history opinion is, they can claim loan as compensation, they can claim colonial rule as investment, the can claim investment as compensation.
Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
What Michael Mills is saying that the investments that Japan made in China and the infrastructure they built with these investments now became the property of China. Japan gained no further profit from these investments but the Chinese government did.
Since China forfeited their right to other compensation, including any single citizen's right, I think China did receive compensation for the Japanese atrocities.
hey,
first, no one here demand the current Japanese give money for China
second, the point we debate here is you people think Chinese should not demand anything now, because Japan do not need to pay money or she paid already.
I told you Japanese so called investment has nothing to do with the repair
and other people told you the money after war has nothing to do with repair
you people think money solves everything
I am telling you let along there is no so called money, even there is the money, we still have right to concern
we did the Japanese a favor, not the reverse one
first, no one here demand the current Japanese give money for China
second, the point we debate here is you people think Chinese should not demand anything now, because Japan do not need to pay money or she paid already.
I told you Japanese so called investment has nothing to do with the repair
and other people told you the money after war has nothing to do with repair
you people think money solves everything
I am telling you let along there is no so called money, even there is the money, we still have right to concern
we did the Japanese a favor, not the reverse one
consider the real economy status after war, we can say we even saved their lives. and saved US a lot of wealth
Joined Mar 2011
3,342 Posts | 20+
dragon's area
Last edited:
don't you think your defense is so pale after I had clearly pointed those "investment" builded on robbery?
and you said Japan gained no further profit so japan gained no fruther profit?
and what michael mills said is pre-war investment, the infrastructure of pre-war were built by japan? you both are kidding? the master of manchuria is chinese warlord zhang family in pre-war, the local's education and some industries main built under zhang family.
zhang xueliang is alived in 2001, zhang family's contribution had been accepted by history, especially they tried to build many schools in manchuria.
feel shame to claim these infrastructure of pre-war as japan's investment?
as for this:
that is more funny, USSR's army almost take over almost all japan's industrials and factories in manchuria, even tear down all steel making machines, now you are claiming china government confiscated these? yes, china had gave one claiming and think that is victims's rights, but later USSR painted all things as military industrials, even didn't leave one machine, just watch how did USSR ransacked the biggest steel factory, they moved for above 40 days, the factory became ruins.
what is more, when did the enemy assets concept belong to post-war compensation concept?
somebody always try to mix concepts for search excuses for japan.
Joined Apr 2011
10,429 Posts | 21+
Virginia
So what do the Japanese need to do? They have offered reparations and that was rejected and their actions were forgiven. They have apologized many times in the most humble ways possible. China, first, benefited from the investments left behind by the Japanese and second, China has benefited hugely from the past 30 years of Japanese investment in the country. Without Japan the historic Chinese economic "Boom" would have been much less significant and China would not have been enabled to be as powerful as she is today.
Joined Jun 2013
1,445 Posts | 18+
Mundo Nuevo
Indnesian and Burmese nationalists collaborated with Japan during the war. I see no evidence that these payments were in lieu of "assets" not left behind Japan in light of their payments to collaborators.
Japan gave their Indonesian collaborators weapons to resist the Dutch and after Japan left the independence war in Indonesia broke out. When the Japanese vacated Indonesia they left their weapons which were used by the Indonesians against the Dutch.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_National_Revolution]Indonesian National Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
On the other hand, the Moro Muslims in Mindanao and Sulu, who fought against Japan, have not received any of these payments. Japan left no weapons to help them resist Filipino rule when they were forced to vacate the Philippines at the end of the war.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_insurgency_in_the_Philippines]Moro insurgency in the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Indonesia engaged in actions in East Timor and West Papua after receiving those payments, its like Japan gave them an incentive to engage in this kind of behavior.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_conflict]Papua conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor]Indonesian invasion of East Timor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
More History Discussions
Trending History Discussions
-
The Great Captains of History - How Many Battles? - Version 7- Started by DiocletianIsBetterThanYou
- Replies: 861
-
-
The Great Captains of History - How Many Battles? - Version 5
- Started by DiocletianIsBetterThanYou
- Replies: 3K
-
The Diversity Of Early African Architecture/Ruins Thread- Started by Kilwa Sultanate
- Replies: 2K
-