Women Waiting for their Husbands Return

Joined May 2008
4,476 Posts | 49+
Fireland
Some women didn't wait for their men at home, some went with them. Armies in past centuries were followed by soldiers' wives, and other women. Even upper class women sometimes accompanied their husbands, like Eleanor of Aquitaine for instance who went to the crusades with Louis VII.

Eleanor of Aquitaine may as well have stayed at home and played the field - by all accounts she was bored to death with Louis before they even set out; allegedly cuckolding him several times but verifiably shacking up with at least one Byzantine prince during the Second Crusade. (whose name escapes me). Louis's earnest 're-conversion' in the faith under Bernard of Clairveux apparently sucked the life out of their marriage and Alison Weir even suggests she may have 'known' Henry II prior to the Pope's annulment of her marriage. It was the strategically smart choice of course but she did exercise considerable liberties sexually -which Louis apparently chose to ignore.

Felt a bit sorry for the guy. :)
 
Joined Sep 2011
24,135 Posts | 8+
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I'm just thinking there's no way the original Penelope (for there had to be one) sat at that loom for twenty years fending off legions of those amorous dogs (the suitors) while Odysseus gallivanted around the Mediterranean.

One thing I do recall is that Homer synthesised pre-existing 'Trojan' tales which had obviously mushroomed out of all proportion with regards to the adventures with Circe, the Cyclopes, Aeolus etc and so to accommodate the expanded repertoire of Odysseus-related material bards had to steadily increase the time which Penelope was said to have waited.

This story, that the Bard's extended Odysseus journey in order to accommodate his son's coming of age doesn't sit right as the Telemachus sub-plot seems all the time subsidiary to the Penelope story. It must have been considered a very satisfactory 'adjustment' in that it set forth unmistakeably the kind of example women should follow - the long suffering Penelope immune to the suitors advances and holding out courageously for her husband's return.

A perfect feel good tale for future wars and a warning of the warrior's wrath should he be cuckolded. Women whose men were lost at sea or 'missing in action' during multiple Greek wars must have had all sorts of prohibitive norms imposed against them re-marrying too early let alone 'doing the dirt' via this oral tradition.

Of course, within a few hundred years it would instead be the dictates of the Church imposing these norms.

Thanks for your input, well written. :)

Some women didn't wait for their men at home, some went with them. Armies in past centuries were followed by soldiers' wives, and other women. Even upper class women sometimes accompanied their husbands, like Eleanor of Aquitaine for instance who went to the crusades with Louis VII. 'The Spanish Bride' by Georgette Heyer is a novel about a real life young Spanish .... who married a British officer in the Napoleonic wars and accompanied him on campaign. Ladysmith in South Africa was named after her.

I thought prostitues went along with the armies, and mistresses, who they sometimes had kids with whilst their wives stayed at home?
 
Joined Jan 2011
7,239 Posts | 5+
Southeast England
Thanks for your input, well written. :)



I thought prostitues went along with the armies, and mistresses, who they sometimes had kids with whilst their wives stayed at home?

There were prostitutes with the army, but many wives also accompanied their husbands. Wives cooked and sewed for their husbands, nursed them when wounded, and sometimes stepped in and took their place when they were wounded (as for instance Margaret Corbin who was mentioned in another thread, who took her husband's place at the Battle of Fort Washington in the American Revolutionary War).

.... Smith, who married an English officer in the Napoleonic Wars, accompanied him on almost all his campaigns throughout his long military career.

I'm not sure exactly when the custom of women accompanying their menfolk to war was discontinued, certainly it was still happening in the Crimean War, in the 1850s.
 
Joined Aug 2010
2,950 Posts | 1+
USA
In the early American wars, French & Indian and the Revolution, most married men without rank only went to war during the months not devoted to farming. When you read the applications for pension (Revolutionary war) you will see most were in for 3-4 months out and then back in again. Historical records (mainly land grants and first hand accounts) show the same pattern with the French & Indian war.
 
Joined Nov 2011
8,940 Posts | 226+
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
There were prostitutes with the army, but many wives also accompanied their husbands. Wives cooked and sewed for their husbands, nursed them when wounded, and sometimes stepped in and took their place when they were wounded (as for instance Margaret Corbin who was mentioned in another thread, who took her husband's place at the Battle of Fort Washington in the American Revolutionary War).

.... Smith, who married an English officer in the Napoleonic Wars, accompanied him on almost all his campaigns throughout his long military career.

I'm not sure exactly when the custom of women accompanying their menfolk to war was discontinued, certainly it was still happening in the Crimean War, in the 1850s.

Wellington's army officially permitted 6 women per hundred men as camp followers. These women were "on the strength" and received both pay and rations and in return were expected to launder, cook, forage and nurse the wounded. There was big competition for such a position and most were the wives (officially or otherwise) of NCOs although selection was theoretically by ballot it appears to have been rigged. Many also operated as sutlers, selling "neccessaries" to the troops such as replacement kit and luxuries such as tea and tobbacco. They also performed a vital service after a battle of scavaging the battlefield to remove kit and clothing from the dead for resale or recycling. The actual number was always much larger as "unofficial" women both paid for their own voyage and supported themselves on campaign and local women tagged along often for protection after a town had been liberated. The unofficial women could however not claim a berth on the transports home and many were abandoned after the army left.
There were plenty of adventurous officers wives who travelled on campaign, but I think that Juana Maria de los Doleres de Leon Smith is a special case; there isn't a decent portrait of her on the internet, but there is one in the National Art Museum in Cape Town that tells me that no man would have let a hot number like that out of his sight for a moment.
I am currently reading a book "Jack Tar" about Nelson's Navy. The lot of sailor's wives is even more interesting. As most sailors were not allowed shore leave, the wives ( official or unofficial) would visit the ship while in port. Many "wives" seem to have had several "husbands", obtaining a portion of their pay from all of them and no doubt hoping that only one husband's ship was in port at any one time.
Something that we never see in the movies is that many women stayed on Navy vessels full time as sort of floating camp followers and there is not a single major sea action of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars where some wives were not on board some of the ships and sometimes their children too. In fact more than one premature birth occurred during battle.
Very little has been recorded about these women as they were strictly unofficial and not on the muster and even when killed in action rarely gained a mention in the official logs.
According to various memoirs these women not only assisted the surgeons during battle but also acted as powder monkeys and kept the gunners supplied with water. One benefit of their presence on board that is rarely discussed is their protection of the young boys. Most RN ships of the time had up to 10% of their crew made up of children aged from 8 to 12 years old and the risk of paedophilia, despite buggery being the most serious of any offence at sea and deserving of a mandatory hanging, must have been very real. One can bet that these sailors wives could spot the perverts at a hundred yards and kept them at bay.
 
Joined Jan 2011
7,239 Posts | 5+
Southeast England
Wellington's army officially permitted 6 women per hundred men as camp followers. These women were "on the strength" and received both pay and rations and in return were expected to launder, cook, forage and nurse the wounded. There was big competition for such a position and most were the wives (officially or otherwise) of NCOs although selection was theoretically by ballot it appears to have been rigged. Many also operated as sutlers, selling "neccessaries" to the troops such as replacement kit and luxuries such as tea and tobbacco. They also performed a vital service after a battle of scavaging the battlefield to remove kit and clothing from the dead for resale or recycling. The actual number was always much larger as "unofficial" women both paid for their own voyage and supported themselves on campaign and local women tagged along often for protection after a town had been liberated. The unofficial women could however not claim a berth on the transports home and many were abandoned after the army left.
There were plenty of adventurous officers wives who travelled on campaign, but I think that Juana Maria de los Doleres de Leon Smithis a special case; there isn't a decent portrait of her on the internet, but there is one in the National Art Museum in Cape Town that tells me that no man would have let a hot number like that out of his sight for a moment.
I am currently reading a book "Jack Tar" about Nelson's Navy. The lot of sailor's wives is even more interesting. As most sailors were not allowed shore leave, the wives ( official or unofficial) would visit the ship while in port. Many "wives" seem to have had several "husbands", obtaining a portion of their pay from all of them and no doubt hoping that only one husband's ship was in port at any one time.
Something that we never see in the movies is that many women stayed on Navy vessels full time as sort of floating camp followers and there is not a single major sea action of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars where some wives were not on board some of the ships and sometimes their children too. In fact more than one premature birth occurred during battle.
Very little has been recorded about these women as they were strictly unofficial and not on the muster and even when killed in action rarely gained a mention in the official logs.
According to various memoirs these women not only assisted the surgeons during battle but also acted as powder monkeys and kept the gunners supplied with water. One benefit of their presence on board that is rarely discussed is their protection of the young boys. Most RN ships of the time had up to 10% of their crew made up of children aged from 8 to 12 years old and the risk of paedophilia, despite buggery being the most serious of any offence at sea and deserving of a mandatory hanging, must have been very real. One can bet that these sailors wives could spot the perverts at a hundred yards and kept them at bay.

That is extremely interesting information. I will probably get 'jack Tar' ti sounds like a good book. I knew that the wives of naval officers went to sea with them sometimes, because it is discussed in 'Persuasion' by Jane Austen, but I didn't know that so many ordinary women also stayed on board.
 
Joined Feb 2011
5,566 Posts | 11+
England
Isn't that where 'show a leg' comes from, the wives on board ship?
 
Joined Nov 2011
8,940 Posts | 226+
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
That is extremely interesting information. I will probably get 'jack Tar' ti sounds like a good book. I knew that the wives of naval officers went to sea with them sometimes, because it is discussed in 'Persuasion' by Jane Austen, but I didn't know that so many ordinary women also stayed on board.
Jack Tar by Roy and Lesley Adkins. Abacus paperback
 
Joined Nov 2011
8,940 Posts | 226+
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Isn't that where 'show a leg' comes from, the wives on board ship?

According to the guide on the Victory tour the following phrases were coined.
"Show a leg" so that the Bosun's mate could see if there was a female sharing a hammock and thus give them some privacy.
"Son of a Gun" Either from the use of cannon fire to encourage a woman in labour or for Navy Bastards. Children born to women who had had so many liasions that the father was not identifiable were so called.
Then there is a whole long list of the work related terms, know the ropes, groggy, etc.
 
Joined Jan 2010
2,974 Posts | 1+
Incline Village near Lake Tahoe
..................................THE PLEA OF A VIETNAM VET - RUBY

You've painted up your lips an rolled and curled your tinted hair.
Ruby are you contemplating going out somewhere?
The Shadow on the wall tells me the sun is going down -
Oh Ruby
Don't take your love to town

It wasn't me that started that old crazy asian war
But I was proud to go and do my patriotic chore
And yes, it's true that I'm not the man I used to be...
Oh Ruby I still need some company.


Its hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralysed
And THE WANTS AND the needs of a woman your age, Ruby I realize,
But it won't be long i've heard them say until I'M not around
Oh Ruby
Don't take your love to town

She's leavin' now 'cause I heard the slammin' of the door
The way I know I've heard it slam one hundred times before
And if I could move I'd get my gun and put her in the ground
Oh Ruby
Don't take your love to town
Oh Ruby
God sakeS turn around

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ldtuSfm9g&feature=related"]Kenny Rogers - Ruby 1972 - YouTube[/ame]
 

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