Your assessment on these American historical figures
- Thread starter Swansong
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Joined Dec 2009
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Ozarkistan
Joined Oct 2009
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Maryland
I have respect for the cause he fought for. I have little to no respect for how he fought for it.
Clay was sort of a "Southern Federalist" which would indicate why he never rose to the presidency. Democrats in general viewed his politics negatively.
He stated that he would rather be right than be president....but he ran six times.
He stated that he would rather be right than be president....but he ran six times.
Joined Apr 2010
6,329 Posts | 6+
US
If anyone other than MacArthur had been in charge of the occupation of Japan, it may have fallen apart.
Joined Dec 2009
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Are you aware of any Japanese sources that may support such assessment?
IMHO (just that!) many Japanese would probably disagree.
For some reason MacArthur has had a bad press. Of course he was self-interested, and was narcissistic, but he was also a brilliant strategist (who made the best of his situation in the Pacific, since the navy got most of the resources), and as stated, had the political sense to make the occupation of Japan a success.
There has been much made of MacArthur's inter-service rivalry with the navy, but his operation at Inchon was a masterpiece of "combined arms" and cooperation. His campaigns were also characterized by low casualties.
I consider him one of the best US commanders of all time.
Joined Apr 2010
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US
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Oh, I haven't met one professor with any knowledge of that period that doesn't think very highly of MacArthur's operations in Post-War Japan. In fact, when MacArthur was dismissed by Truman, their was genuine outpouring in Japan. Emperor Hirohito was said to be shocked and even depressed.
Here's a great quote from the Mainichi Daily News after MacArthur's dismissal:
Years ago, in a conversation with naval officers (admittedly in the O-club and well lubricated) I had a discussion that intimated that the advantage of atomic weapons during the Korean War should have been leveraged (i.e. used) to send an unambiguous message that the US would use its power in its own interests. At the time, there would have been minimal complaint, and the precedent had already been set in 1945.
These days that is hardly possible, but in the early 1950s it may, in fact, have made sense. As it developed, the sense that the US was a paper tiger promoted numerous actions of adversaries against US interests, and US response was minimal in relation to its capabilities.
At the same time, Truman was C-in-C and that was that. MacArthur's arguments and his actions merited dismissal.
These days that is hardly possible, but in the early 1950s it may, in fact, have made sense. As it developed, the sense that the US was a paper tiger promoted numerous actions of adversaries against US interests, and US response was minimal in relation to its capabilities.
At the same time, Truman was C-in-C and that was that. MacArthur's arguments and his actions merited dismissal.
Joined Dec 2009
19,936 Posts | 25+
Japanese professors, I guess.
The relevant point here is not if the Japanese might have loved McArthur or not; the point is if Japan would have "fallen apart" without him, as previously suggested.
With all due respect, IMHO nothing above would justify such assessment.
Are you aware of any Japanese source that may even indirectly support such claims?
Joined Apr 2010
6,329 Posts | 6+
US
The main source I have on the occupation is not a Japanese source. It is American Shogun by Robert Harvey.
In the book, Harvey basically states the argument from my first post. MacArthur was the right man to lead the occupation of Japan. If it were any other American from that period, the occupation would not nearly have gone as smoothly as it did.
Do you have any Japanese sources that argue w/ this? I would be interested in reading them if you did.
Joined Dec 2009
19,936 Posts | 25+
I don't have any sources; that's why I asked for them. As I stated, it is just a subjective impression.
Hardly would I dispute the excellent performance of McArthur as SCAP in Japan; what I'm not so sure if such rule was indeed so life-saving for Japan (you know, the "what-if"). We are probably lessening here to some extent the indisputable merit of the Japanese themselves for such outstanding post-war transition.
Joined Apr 2010
6,329 Posts | 6+
US
I was not trying to lessen the importance of the Japanese role in this at all. Sorry if it came off that way.
Looking back, I guess I should have been more clear in my original post. If any other person was in the position of MacArthur in Post-War Japan except for MacArthur himself, the cooperative nature of the Japanese government and the American forces would probably have not existed. At least not as long as it did.
I base this conjecture (and that's all it is, really) on the fact that the only other commanders America had qualified enough to run the Occupation simply did not have the awareness of Asian and Japanese culture that MacArthur did. It was his understanding of their culture that enamored him to the Japanese people and allowed them to keep their dignity while facing a situation that they had never known. He fostered many policies in Japan to fit their established governance that I just don't see anybody else on our(USA) side doing.
These are just sentiments that Harvey states in his book, and I happen to agree with.
Joined Jan 2009
3,333 Posts | 4+
Minneapolis, MN
Joined Mar 2009
25,361 Posts | 13+
Texas
MacArthur was such a rich, career officer.
Clay averted war, for awhile.
Douglas, what might have been if he had lived to see Reconstruction.
Taft, rich political background
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