it is assumed the question is correct so there could be an answer.
however there will be no answer when the question is wrong.
btw: i don't quite understand about the glories of "chinese ancient history" stuff, we are living in 21th century
Rise of Christianity in Republic of China
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it is assumed the question is correct so there could be an answer.
however there will be no answer when the question is wrong.
btw: i don't quite understand about the glories of "chinese ancient history" stuff, we are living in 21th century
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
okay, so lets rephrase it by what is effect of cultural revolution in modern China? will that be considered as cutting the ties of modern China to its past?
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
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the effect of it is unrelated to this thread, unless you have to impose it into a framework that presume it (or anything else) had cut the ties of modern china to the past. (and specially, to fit the OP, these ties have something to do with religions)
this presumption work is exactly what you do now
you presume it, you prove (or disprove) it. i won't do your homework
i don't believe any of my words can lead to this.
you have some mislead ideas about history
You seem to be misunderstanding his point. You claimed that Christianity was relatively successful in Korea because Koreans lost their history while China never lost their history. But isn't the Chinese Cultural Revolution an example of losing history and culture?
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The real question is why wouldn't you have beef with Christianity? I'm sure that Christianity may have sparked progression in areas such as art and architecture in the past in European and Middle-Eastern history (while also being the source of countless problems) but I cannot see a lot of evidence of Christianity promoting progression in this era.
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how korean lost their history:
1. japanese language education during colonization, which is coupled with forcedly reduced korean language and chinese written language education (not down to zero, but close)
2. education of shinto and japanese emperor system
3. change holidays to japanese ones.
4. systematic destroy of korean history books.
in this way many koreans were taught to be japanese, and it was partially successful.
china did not lost history like this. you want to discuss how chinese lost history due to culture revolution, that would be your own job.
Joined Dec 2015
9,459 Posts | 1,223+
As far as the mind can reach
The one cutting difference between Christianity and Buddhism and Daoism is the role of humans.
In Christianity, humans are sinners and can only seek salvation through Christ; to me, it is a servile idea, no matter how we call it.
Don't hide behind "free will"; in Christianity it is granted by God.
Even in the so-called "eternity", humans are still subordinates.
This is why I call it the servile religion.
In Buddhism, although one can only ascend to Buddha in a world without "the four principles" (suffering, the source of suffering, end of suffering, and the way to end suffering), humans can ascend to the equivalent level of Buddha, in which the cycle of life and death ceases.
In Daoism, humans can ascend as well.
There was certainly an attempt to transform Koreans into Japanese by promoting the idea that the two were one people with a common heritage. However it has been shown that the attempt was not very successful with almost no lasting aftermath. Also you said that Korea lost their history for three generations but the Japanese occupation only lasted for 40 years which is approximately equal to only one generation (maybe two).
You seem to taking this very personally and refuse to acknowledge that your previous statement was erroneous.
Joined Dec 2015
9,459 Posts | 1,223+
As far as the mind can reach
i write it as "two to three generations", which accounts for the recovery time.
you misleadingly quote it as "three generations". this is more than a math error, though it did serve your argument.
the aftermath certainly is more than what you described as not successful.
for example, most of ancient korean official documents were written in chinese. however, few still can read those after the occupation. you cannot read it, how could you understand it?
the removal of chinese education in 1968 in south korea, though partial is induced by nationalism, but largely also caused by the fact that few read chinese anyway.
this is open facts without doubt, while the so called cultural revolution loss is to be debated. i cannot seriously discuss it when people misleadingly compare those. and you did not help to compare it anyway.
Yes I agree that few Koreans could read Chinese characters after the occupation but you forget that few Koreans could read it before the occupation too. I am not sure where you are getting this information but the removal of Chinese characters was not caused by the occupation since the removal was a slow and gradual process along time.
I fail to see how that was a bad comparison. Besides, I was merely clarifying what Dagul was saying to you so that you two could have a better conversation because I thought that you didn't understand his point. I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge your erroneous statement.
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i had intended to add it, that we should not assume there was a different circumstances in the civilian life compared with official and court life. you found chinese commonly used in civilian life in korea. you also found (found, past tense) newspapers commonly printed in chinese.
to add more, it is usually the high level educated scholars who preserves the history of a nation, while such kind of scholars were out of supply due to colony education in korea.
i'd wait for any of you to *prove* this "good" comparison made by korea .vs. china history loss.
for me the large gap is obvious, the chinese had never had problem to read previous documents, and few of the documents actually lost during culture revolution...., perhaps you can give me a clue on to practically use evidences to approach the answer to the question that how comparable they are?
i think the discussion could be more smoother if the question were asked in a way that:
would you agree that the cultural revolution of Mao also destroyed certain deep historical connection of the present Chinese generation towards the glories of its ancient history? and why?
with this kind of question, i can come up with replies, because it is open for possibilities.
while sadly, you and dagul both had shut the door of other possibilities, thus i can hardly give any positive answer, while i have to wait for you to prove your ideas.
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
That idea of cutting of historical tie was made by you as far as South Korea is concern. Hence to follow it up, would such cutting of historical tie happened in China in regard to cultural revolution of Mao?
the supporting is given as for one example of written language barrier problem.
this kind of cutting cannot be found in china, with or without cultural rev.
Joined Mar 2012
18,030 Posts | 10+
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
I see, I think I will agree with you on this aspect because when Soviet Union disintegrated the Orthodoxy simply resurfaced in mainstream by auto-motion and language is one thing that can preserve that in view of delivery of information from one generation to the other. So I surmise that the ancient traditions of China should still be intact among its people even if there was that cultural revolution. Thanks for explaining, by the way.
If you had specified the reason why the two weren't comparable earlier in the discussion, there wouldn't have been this misunderstanding.
I would assume that this is what you are saying:
Japanese occupation of Korea: destroyed both culture and historical connections from Korea's ancient history.
Cultural Revolution: destroyed only certain aspects of culture but not historical connections from China's ancient history.
Thus the two are not comparable since what was destroyed was different.
Unrelated, but I find it a bit strange how some Chinese members argue that the Japanese did not destroy Korean historical records to cut historical connections from its ancient history while some (such as you) agree with the mainstream accepted findings that the Japanese did destroy Korean historical records.
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