The Cold War & The Kitchen Debates

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
He does say it! The presenter or narrator's words are part of this story. I believe Khrushchev would have been impressed with the infrastructure he observed in US cities. But his ego was so wrapped up with hating the United States, he would never admit as much to anyone.

He was apparently impressed by San Francisco infrastructure indeed, but he didnt hate America. After all he was quite obsessed with corn, which is an American product. Driven by an almost religious belief he 'encouraged' meaning ordered Soviets farms to plant corn, he believed that through this corn crusade of him, to popularization of corn as a fodder crop, it would increase the supply of meat. He loved corn, he adored corn, again corn was taken from America, he had American farmers like the one from the photo below, his friends, ordinary folk, not politicians, who helped him to introduce it into the Soviet agriculture, ergo he didnt hate America per se, he worshipped part of it, the corn. EDIT: His corn crusade ended badly by the way. For USSR economy. One of the best weapons the USA had.

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Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

He certainly hated the US politically. Every time he spoke, while visiting, he either insulted or tried to embarrass the US.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
He certainly hated the US politically. Every time he spoke, while visiting, he either insulted or tried to embarrass the US.

.., you act surprised? He was of low class prole origin, he was no orator, his speech was very straightforward, bashing & trashing the western bourgeoisie (and its decadent moral) in general, the oppressors of the local working folk etc, was part of his daily routine, he had not enough brain cells for flattery, he was no JFK, a charismatic politician of noble origin, a smooth operator of highest quality. This is what happens, when you murder all kshatriya and bramins, what Bolsheviks did, all what is left is shudra, eventually you have to train some shudra to become kshatriya and others to become bramins, but these are in fact pseudo kshatriya and pseudo bramins, far inferior from the original social classes.

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

I'm surprised a country leader wouldn't be more intellectually curious as well as looking for a few lines of commonality (with the US) in an effort to play the role of statesman. You don't need to be a PhD holder to have a mature approach to foreign policy and politics.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
I'm surprised a country leader wouldn't be more intellectually curious as well as looking for a few lines of commonality (with the US) in an effort to play the role of statesman. You don't need to be a PhD holder to have a mature approach to foreign policy and politics.

... oh, he had a lots in common with the American working class in accordance to his ideology. The problem was that the proles there didnt want to have anything with it, because as Steinbeck put it 'they saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.'

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

At Each Kilometer said:
... oh, he had a lots in common with the American working class in accordance to his ideology. The problem was that the proles there didnt want to have anything with it, because as Steinbeck put it 'they saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.'

Right, so wouldn't Khrushchev have been amazed by a modern-day US (at that time) grocery store? The best areas in Moscow would of had nothing like it.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
Right, so wouldn't Khrushchev have been amazed by a modern-day US (at that time) grocery store? The best areas in Moscow would of had nothing like it.

... showing amasement, being impressed by a grocery store is what journalists do, while pushing their agenda, not politicians.

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

Fair point.

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

@At Each Kilometer, you know a lot about Khrushchev. Some say he died, not understanding why Mother Russia couldn't feed it's own people. How could he explain this question to himself or other Russians?

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
@At Each Kilometer, you know a lot about Khrushchev. Some say he died, not understanding why Mother Russia couldn't feed it's own people. How could he explain this question to himself or other Russians?

Being a commie Khrushchev' opinion on the matter is irrelevant, you know, better dead than red, etc. 'Mother Russia' of the old, or RSFSR officially was poor because it gave a lot to the other fourteen Soviet socialist republics and received in return much less, 'thanks to' the Marxist ideology & the brotherhood of the proletarians concept, in short the stupidity of the then elite. Now when RF is free of this burden, it is in much better situation economically.

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

Khrushchev may have been a "Commie" but he was also a leader and I'm trying to understand how he or any Russian could look at the condition of the US or western Europe and still cling to an idea of the great Russian Empire that will rise again one day...

At Each Kilometer said:
Being a commie Khrushchev' opinion on the matter is irrelevant, you know, better dead than red, etc. 'Mother Russia' of the old, or RSFSR officially was poor because it gave a lot to the other fourteen Soviet socialist republics and received in return much less, 'thanks to' the Marxist ideology & the brotherhood of the proletarians concept. Now when RF is free of this burden, it is in much better situation economically.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
Khrushchev may have been a "Commie" but he was also a leader and I'm trying to understand how he or any Russian could look at the condition of the US or western Europe and still cling to an idea of the great Russian Empire that will rise again one day.

The leader was blinded by his ideology.

The others didnt have a clue about the conditions you are talking about.

The Commies and Bolsheviks before them, being of low origin, hated everything about this entity you call Russian Empire. It was Glorious and Great indeed, ruled by glamorous nobles, mostly of German stock.

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

You may be correct on this point.

But how is it that "the others" didn't have a clue? Russians were well educated people. They had seen western movies, listened to the Beetles and the like.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
But how is it that "the others" didn't have a clue? Russians were well educated people. They had seen western movies, listened to the Beetles and the like.

.. beware who you do call Russians, if you call an Estonian for example 'a Russian' he most likely will slit your throat open on the spot, they were all Soviets back then. Indeed some listened to Beatles, others probably have watched movies like the Magnificent Seven with Yul Brynner, Elizabeth Taylor's Cleopatra and Gone with the Wind with Clark Gable in cinema or on the National TV, so what? You do believe that by watching a Clark Gable' movie they should understand how things are, thoroughly and completely, what situation is on the other side of the globe?

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

So now I have been warned not call people from the country of Russia, Russians. Great job @AtEachKilometer.

There was quite a black market for beetles albums and other (what would later be called Americano memorabilia). As well as the Beach Boys, Mama Cass and many more. Whichever particular movies they watched aren't relevant. They knew something of American culture. Many would have questioned their lifestyles or lack thereof in the 1960s and 70s.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
So now I have been warned not call people from the country of Russia, Russians. Great job @AtEachKilometer..

It is complicated, only the ignorant people call them all Russians, even when talking about the former RSFSR. The ethnonym works fine most of the time, but to call a Buryat or an Yakut, Russkii I do not recommend.

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

I think you're over complicating this thing.

I lived and worked in Moscow for two years back in 2006. Most every Russian I knew was proud to call themselves a Russian. I didn't mention a Hollywood comedy movie that makes fun of a fictional EIS country, that was all you.

At Each Kilometer said:
It is complicated, only the ignorant people call them all Russians, even when talking about the former RSFSR. The ethnonym works fine most of the time, but to call a Buryat or an Yakut, Russkii I do not recommend.

At Each Kilometer · Jul 21, 2024

Gazoo1000 said:
I think you're over complicating this thing.

I lived and worked in Moscow for two years back in 2006. Most every Russian I knew was proud to call themselves a Russian. I didn't mention a Hollywood comedy movie that makes fun of a fictional EIS country, that was all you.

What Russian word for Russians, these many Russians of yours used to describe themselves, Mr. I lived in Moscow?

Gazoo1000 · Jul 21, 2024

At Each Kilometer said:
What Russian word for Russians, these many Russians of yours used to describe themselves, Mr. I lived in Moscow?

Well, Mr. Borat. People in Russia such as my boss, work colleagues and other usually spoke English as I am from the US. I do remember conversations with people who explained that, they understood that Russia has a rather tortured history and that won't change anytime soon. The movie Borat had not yet been releases and I don't remember any of the Russians I knew making references to caricature like depictions of the Russian people as you have done here.

Yury · Jul 21, 2024

At Each Kilometer said:
He was apparently impressed by San Francisco infrastructure indeed, but he didnt hate America. After all he was quite obsessed with corn, which is an American product. Driven by an almost religious belief he 'encouraged' meaning ordered Soviets farms to plant corn, he believed that through this corn crusade of him, to popularization of corn as a fodder crop, it would increase the supply of meat. He loved corn, he adored corn, again corn was taken from America, he had American farmers like the one from the photo below, his friends, ordinary folk, not politicians, who helped him to introduce it into the Soviet agriculture, ergo he didnt hate America per se, he worshipped part of it, the corn. EDIT: His corn crusade ended badly by the way. For USSR economy. One of the best weapons the USA had.

It was part of the historical relationship between Russia and the West, first Europe and then America. It was a deep envy and a strong desire to surpass it. It began with Peter the Great and lasted until now.

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